Saints' Discussion Forums

'"It is not," says St. Francis de Sales, "the seeing of objects so much as the fixing of our eyes upon them that proves most pernicious." "If," says St. Augustine, "our eyes should by chance fall upon others, let us take care never to fix them upon any one." Father Manareo, when taking leave of St. Ignatius for a distant place, looked steadfastly in his face: for this look he was corrected by the saint. From the conduct of St. Ignatius on this occasion, we learn that it was not becoming in religious to fix their eyes on the countenance of a person even of the same sex, particularly if the person is young. But I do not see how looks at young persons of a different sex can be excused from the guilt of a venial fault, or even from mortal sin, when there is proximate danger of criminal consent. "It is not lawful," says St. Gregory, "to behold what it is not lawful to covet." The evil thought that proceeds from looks, though it should be rejected, never fails to leave a stain upon the soul. Brother Roger, a Franciscan of singular purity, being once asked why he was so reserved in his intercourse with women, replied, that when men avoid the occasions of sin, God preserves them; but when they expose themselves to danger, they are justly abandoned by the Lord, and easily fall into some grievous transgressions.'

St. Alphonsus Maria de Liguori

Remind me Shin if you can remember; there is a saint who reportedly knew only about two women by sight. Do you remember who he was?
Also it is considered polite to look at people who are talking directly to us. I remember something like " look at me when I am talking to you!" How do we reconcile the two? ;D

No, I do not recall. If you remember sometime, do tell me. :D

I will reply some more in a bit after some further thought. The stated motivations of worldly human customs are often quite different than the actual interior ones.  :D

My take on it, odhiambo, would be to only look at someone in the eyes and only when they or you are speaking. It is most difficult for me to not look at other things or the rest of them, clothes, hair, etc. when either in conversation with someone or otherwise - but I realize that that isn't treating others with the respect and dignity that they deserve as a creation of God.

We need to remember that more is asked of consecrated and priests than the laity. That is only fitting since we have different circumstances, needing to deal with the world all the time. Mothers (parents) have different circumstances, too, as they need to watch their young ones all the time - what sort of mother doesn't look at her babies diaper a lot?

Noted with thanks,  Brigid.

Yes, I would be hurt if a person shifted his eyes while talking to me, but one can make an exception for saints who went out of their way to keep away from temptation even the tiniest glint of it. Was it St. Alphonsus de Liguori who knew only two women by sight?  I remember reading about it, but now have forgotten the name of that saint. :-\

"I resolve to avoid, as far as possible, conversing with the opposite sex unless obedience imposes duties on me which make it necessary to speak with women. In that case I resolve to be very reserved and maintain custody of the eyes."

  From Resolutions of a Novice
By St. Conrad of Parzham

I like that quote odhiambo!

'Blessed the one who has kept the mastery of his eyelids and has not deceived himself with either mind or senses with regard to the skin of the flesh that after a little while oozes putrefaction.'

St. Ephrem of Syria

I think it takes prayer and practice to understand how to truly live modesty of the eyes.  :D

The culture of the saints is different than ours.

I have learning to do!

That is so true Shin. It is not at all an easy undertaking; Only a selected few, I am thinking can manage it. :)

I'm thinking that maybe in our time we are all called to practice this, even to an heroic degree. With immodesty so prevailent today, a special grace may be granted to those who resist the trend.
As St Paul said, "Where sin abounds, grace abounds even more."  (Romans 5: 20)

Keeping the eyes focused on where one's going -neither looking left nor right-  is something I've been trying to practice for a good year now ( with limited but improving success)  since Shin first mentioned the subject of custody of the eyes way back then.   :-\
Even to maintain a moderation towards worldly goods I'm trying to avoid looking in shop windows while passing. It's so easy to fill the mind with total nonsense.

Like St Luke says of Our Lord, "He resolutely set his face toward Jerusalem." (Luke 9:51)

If I were a horse I'd have those blinkers fitted.  8)