Saints' Discussion Forums

St. Therese of Lisieux - A Story of a Soul

Yes, she certainly did what was contrary to her will. :)

Very admirable self control.  But she did "discipline" 'till the blood flowed.  Sometimes our Saints are actually not so healthy for me! :angelblue:

I was listening to EWTN Radio yesterday in the car and Fr. Groeschel came on for five minutes talking about the big Saints being given the Grace to do heroic acts of penance, however those are not the usual for most people. What a relief - I know too that I won't be one of the big Saints and that's almost a relief. I can just do what is needed for me at the time and not worry about being heroic. Whew!

Honestly the discipline was really common for ordinary folks not too long ago, it doesn't take a 'big saint' to do it. I think people nowadays have a reaction against it that is based mostly in fear of the unknown rather than capacity or the good of the penance.

I would recommend it to anyone without some extraordinary psychological problems who would take a wrong approach to it.

The Orthodox church sure does a heavy fast!

We used to do much much more too! These are.. many would say, very lax times. Where you have to make up for what is not required of your own initiative, which is more difficult.

Yes, they are lax times, however I wonder if Rome isn't right about not making many penances mandatory, since the social revolution doesn't want any authority. Besides, I think many people were doing the actions without real conversion from their hearts. That just promotes phariseeism (sp?). And the current bishops wouldn't go along with it at all, besides so many of the priests (at least around here, I know) wouldn't even say anything about it in their parish. This way the people that are given that Grace will do further penances anyway, and those that don't have that particular Grace won't be pharisaical. Getting a more prevalent, accessible TLM is the most that the bishops seem to be capable of and many won't even do that (none of the traditional orders - like SSPX - are even in this state at all unless you count the CMRI).

I entered a Carmelite Monastery as a postulant.  Mother told me late Fri. night, as I crawled the
Stations of the Cross, that I would be expected to Whip myself with my belt each Fri. nite to do penance for Priests.  I was on a Greyhound bus, with a weird haircut, and a mental
breakdown by Saturday noon.  :bighanky:

I Can Fast Like Crazy  :thumbsup:

We are each called to do different things, different ways, at different times in our lives.  
And some things,  Not at All! :hospitaltrip:

I really have to disagree that "most"  people would be recommended or even acceptable to do that to themselves. My opinion is based on personal experience rather than "the unknown"!  I heard the moans and whimpers from my sisters.  I really strongly disagree with your statement, don't think I've done that with you before, Shin, maybe you have a personal experience, like I do, that colors your perception?
I really, really disagree on this, can't state it strongly enough :ActofGod:

I, for one, don't have any personal experience that is at all close to this. I know that, hair shirts, etc. were commonly done a few centuries ago, but for lay people physical mortifications are now only strongly recommended after getting an okay from your SD (religious SD is often their superior anyway). Fasting (not abstinence, after checking with your doctor) depends on so much, like pregnancy, age, diabetes, other medical problems (that were not known about back when severe mortifications were common for lay people). In fact, I have read by someone who I respected and was official (I can't remember who) who said that lay people should not do a bread and water fast for more than 3 days. He said it was usually due to a hidden pride and was also quite unhealthy, so not giving the stewardship we owe to our Creator.

For me, not being or thinking uncharitable thoughts, or making sure I show adequate patience is a very rough penance (and an attachment, probably), especially to some members of my family. Now, not eating cooky/cake dough (which aren't good for my blood sugar anyway), is also a rough penance. Everyone has different things that are tough to get rid of for Lent (hard candy, for instance, I don't like anyway, nor meat nor coffee nor ice cream). I have watched my diet for so long that giving up a particular food is not very difficult for me, unless it's giving up eating all the way or not getting enough protein, then I'm comatose in no time.

When did you enter the Carmelite monastery, Vicky? And was it O.Carm. or OCD? Other than age and health not allowing it now, I am very interested in the Carmelites. In fact, if there were a Carmelite third order around I'd enter it.

1989, in CA.  We had vows of silence and a Grille, it was beautiful until That Friday Night. :+:

Wonderful (except the scourging)!

As far as Lent, I couldn't not eat some oils as they help steady blood sugar, however I could certainly not eat sugar or white flour. I did that last year, tho' and I think my attachments to mental uncharity and impatience are blocking me from excepting His will more.

Low blood sugar can be a problem.. I know. You do what you're capable of. :)

This is such a wonderful time to be praying and preparing for Lent.  I know I had never planned on going back to my Liturgy of the Hours, but I find myself drawn to it!  I always pray to be led to whatever will help me carry my cross with Him during Lent, so as to rise as a new me, with Him on Easter Sunday. :angelblue:

I've just been reading through various threads I haven't looked at before and found this.
I too recognise the value of the discipline, and have one I made myself which I use, very moderately on the shoulders on Fridays during my prayer time, as a reminder of my sins. It doesn't hurt a great deal, but helps a great deal!
 :littlewings:

A little discomfort goes a long way and earns graces. If I could just deprive myself of certain foods or snacks that I love it would help me in my prayer life. But I'm making a little progress, and this after I joined this forum. One big grace after being on the Saintsforum is  I don't turn on the tv as before. I think good company rubs off on you. You good people and your prayers are a very positive influence in my life. :) Thank you!

Yes, everyone here has helped me a great deal. :)

Before, because I favored a very silent and reserved spirituality, I was very hesitant at the idea of the amount of talking I would have to do and socializing to maintain a forum, but it has benefited me greatly -- well, but this is just talking about benefits, when I love you all here, my little family.  :D

I felt just the same way at being a moderator here, but I thank you all so much and love each of you. Somehow, I don't feel as afraid of people as I did before.

As far as using the discipline, I had understood  :shrug: that the Church is saying now that we shouldn't use the discipline unless our spiritual director, who knowing us well, would say it was okay for us. I haven't heard anything against it with your spiritual director's okay, though. This teaching has been given probably due the large number of dysfunctional people now. This said, more severe fasting (within your physician's limits, of course) and abstaining from various things are becoming much more advised by bishop's than was true the first 35 years after the last Council.

I feel the same way, Brigid. I was  always fearful of talking to people , but I don't feel that fear here. All of you are tolerant and forgiving. And I think I write better than I speak. If I were to actually meet you, you wouldn't get a peep out of me. Quite the introvert. So if I'm still around it is because I'm very comfortable with having you as friends. :) :flower: :flower:

I second, third and fourth everything said.
We are all in the same boat so to speak, each of us hoping to get ourselves and our loved ones to heaven.
I too don’t care much for mingling outside my family and a couple of close friends.
I do love people but I fear at times of loosing my peace and the strain of avoiding bad conversation in large crowds can be stressful. For charity sake of course there are times where mingling is unavoidable but as a general rule and if given a choice I would be the hermit rather than the socialite.
In this forum I can have the best of both worlds ie the reflective and the social.
That of course is all due to you holy people here who I consider as family. brothers and sisters in Christ.  :)

Sure would help me! I gave those kinds of things up for every Lent a number of years ago, then thought that I was 'beyond' that. Well...... apparently not. ::)