Saints' Discussion Forums

Jesus was born in Bethlehem in Judea,
the time of King Herod the Great.
Now, behold, wise men from the East
came to Jerusalem
and asked:
"Where is the King of the Jews that is born?
We saw his star in the east
and have come to do him homage. »
Hearing this, King Herod was upset,
and all Jerusalem with him.
It brings together all the chief priests and scribes of the people,
asking them where Christ should be born.
They replied:
"In Bethlehem in Judea,
for thus it is written by the prophet.

And you, Bethlehem, land of Judah,
you're certainly not the last
among the chief towns of Judah,
for out of thee shall come a Governor,
who will be the shepherd of my people Israel. »
Then Herod called the Magi secretly
to make clear to them what date the star had appeared;
He sent them to Bethlehem, saying:
"Go give you specific information about the child.
And when ye have found him, come and tell me
for me to go, too, and do him homage. »
After having heard the king, they departed.


And lo, the star which they had seen in the east
before them,
until it stopped over the place
where the child was.
When they saw the star,
they rejoiced with exceeding great joy.
They entered the house,
they saw the child with Mary his mother;
and, falling at his feet,
they worshiped him.
They opened their treasures,
and offered him gifts:
gold, frankincense and myrrh.

But warned in a dream not to return to Herod,
they departed into their own country another way.

What does it mean to you that they followed the star?
What does teh gifts of gold, frankincense and myrrh mean for your?
What does it mean to you "they returned to their country by another way?"

                    Some Catholic church Fathers speak of Three Magi.     
                    In one writing: "Tradition favors twelve."     
                  Snopes.com. mentioned: Some eastern religions have claimed up to twelve   
                   of them made the journey to Bethlehem.

The Wise Men, supposedly astrologers from what was then Persia, followed the star because they believed that it would lead them to a newly born baby, "King of the Jews" According to them, they came to "do Him homage", i.e, to worship Him.
It means a lot. Here we have pagans from another country. Somehow or other, they knew about the Jewish prophesy linking the appearance of an extraordinary star to the birth of the Jewish Messiah.
"A star shall advance from Jacob, and a scepter* shall rise from Israel..."
Balaam's prophesy in Numbers 24:17
They had faith enough to leave their land and undertake a most likely difficult journey to find and worship the Newborn King. The Jews, on the other hand , who should have been more aware of the prophesy missed completely the comming of the Christ.
We must always be alert and have faith.

From my study of the Bible, the gifts of the Wise Men are symbolic of Christ Incarnate.
Frankincense was apparently used in the worship of God by priests. This gift points to His divinity as well as priesthood. We know He is a Priest in the Order of Melchizedek (Hebrews 5:6).
Gold is a symbol of royalty. God promised King David that a blood descendent of his (King David's), would one day rule from David's throne; that descendent is Jesus; He is King; only He tells us that His kingdom is not of this world.
Lastly the Wise Men offer Jesus  myrrh. This was the ointment used to consecrate Levitical priests. More pertinent here is the fact that it was also a burial ointment. This gift pointed to the future suffering and death of this Newborn Baby.

Well the Bible states that the men were warned in a dream not to return to Herod as he had asked them to. They acted according to the dream. They may have have had some idea that Herod meant to do harm to the Baby and they did not wish to make it easy for the King. The Bible does not say exactly.

I never get tired of hearing of the 3 Kings. I always have high expectations of a good homily at mass!
My favorite part of the story of the Magi is their knowledge of the stars and how the followed the bright star.
I like the idea of them traveling at night and navigating by the stars.  :)
They really were wise! They were kings but were humbled and adoring of the little Christ child.
They must have been good kings and rulers.  They were brave and independent also, they went
against Herods orders to bring news of the Christ child back to him and slipped back into the desert
which they must have  known very well, they knew how to avoid being tracked  down by Herods army.
They  were Heroes and gracious, generous  defenders of the Holy Family who were so vulnerable.
The gifts offered were all valuable commodities and probably received with much gratitude! Imagine being
A refugee fleeing from home at a moments notice with very few possessions and a woman with child!

We must always be defenders of and be gracious and generous to refugees, the poor,
the despised, marginalized and forgotten invisible ones.  They are our brothers and sisters in Christ.

 :angryred: :swordfight: :swordfight: :swordfight: :principalities: :angelbell: :angelblue: :cherubim:

 

Could it be that tehy returned by another way to tell us that the encounter with Christ changes us so that we cannot continue the way we were. We have to go by another way. 

Absolutely! That too!
We know that the Church has identified four levels of meaning of Scripture. The four senses of Scripture; the literal sense and three spiritual senses i.e the allegorical, the moral, and the anagogical senses.
Mine is a literal point of view while your explanation is at a spiritual level, moral perhaps?

Recently there was speculation that the star might have been the conjunction of the planets Jupiter and Saturn, which occurred quite spectacularly last month.  I believe I heard or read the comment that scientific records of historic trajectories are not sufficient to reliable calculate the position of the planets so long ago.  But it seems possible and perhaps reasonable.   

I spent a good deal of time before reading this post wondering how to imagine the timing of the Holy Family's flight to Egypt in view of the Epiphany and also the trip to Temple in Jerusalem.  Perhaps they fled to Egypt almost immediately after Jerusalem without returning to Nazareth.  I felt guilty, and perhaps even skeptical, for dwelling on the question.  I must admit I've also wondered what happened to the gifts of the Magi; whether for security they were shared with family and friends and if 10% was given to the Temple.  Despite my concern about excessive rationalism, I searched the NAB Concordance and Fr Hardon's Dictionary for explanation of the Maji, wondering if it isn't best for the Church to search for logical explanations of obvious questions.
Hardon wrote that the Maji were members of the priestly caste of the Mazdean religion with little further comment.  His dictionary has no other reference to that religion and I was reluctant to look further.  NAB says Magi were possibly astrologers from Arabia or Babylon, but then states that the "strong OT influence on the story makes it very difficult to judge the historicity."  Is that a paradox?