Saints' Discussion Forums

Veil of Veronica {See Wikipedia}
Sudarium_of_Oviedo  A hankerchief is thought to be the cloth that was wrapped around the head of Jesus Christ after he died. {See Wikipedia]
The Shroud of Turin  Burial Cloth of Jesus Christ after he died. See Catholic Answers trial-of-the-shroud-of-turin

To Beleive youmust have Faith

Mention of Jesus Christ by Roman Historians

Tacitus  Annals of Rome Part 15 Chapter 44
 Therefore, to scotch the rumour, Nero substituted as culprits, and punished with the utmost refinements of cruelty, a class of men,loathed for their vices, whom the crowd styled Christians. Christus, the founder of the name, had undergone the death penalty in the reign of Tiberius, by order of the procurator Pontius Pilatus, and the pernicious superstition was checked for a mement, only to break out once more, not merely in Judea, the home of the disease, but in the capital itself, where all things  horrible or shameful in the world collect or find a vogue. First, then, the confessed members of the sect were arrested; next, on their disclosures,vast numbers were convicted, not so much on the count of arson as for hatred of the human race. And derision accompanied their end: they were covered with wild beasts' skins and torn to death by dogs; or they were fastened on crosses, and, when daylight failed were burned to serve as lamps by night. Nero had offered his Gardens for the spectacle, and gave an exhibition in his Circus, mixing with the crowd in the habit of a charioteer, or mounted on his car.  Hence, in spite of a guilt which had earned the most exemplary punishment, there arose a sentiment of pity, due to the impression that they were being sacrificed not for the welfare of the state but to the ferocity of a single man.

Note:
Pontius Pilate served as the Roman prefect (often referred to as procurator) of Judea from A.D. 26 to 36
Gospel of Luke, which states that John the Baptist began preaching in the "fifteenth year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar".Calculation: Tiberius was declared emperor in AD 14. Counting fifteen years forward from this point leads to the year AD 29.Sequence of Events: Luke's Gospel continues by stating that Jesus was baptized later that year, when he was "about 30 years old," and his ministry and subsequent crucifixion followed shortly after Actual Date of Crucifixion: Modern historical and biblical scholars generally agree that Jesus was crucified in either AD 30 or AD 33, not AD 29. The year AD 33 is slightly favored by some scholars due to astronomical and calendar data regarding the Passover moon and political factors related to Pontius Pilate and his patron Sejanus.Shorter Ministry Model: Some scholars interpret the Gospels, particularly the Synoptic Gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke), as suggesting a ministry of about one year, or at most two years. Counting two years forward from the likely start of Jesus's ministry (around AD 28, based on Luke's "fifteenth year of Tiberius" in the Syrian calendar system), places the crucifixion in AD 30.Passover Date Calculation: Astronomical studies analyzing when the 14th of Nisan (Passover eve, when Jesus was crucified according to John's Gospel) fell on a Friday during Pontius Pilate's governorship (AD 26–36) identify April 7, AD 30 (Julian date) as a strong possibility.Josephus's Temple Reference: The Jewish historian Josephus states the Temple was in its 46th year of construction when Jesus began his ministry (John 2:20). Dating the temple's construction start to 19 BC places the 46th year around AD 27/28, a date that fits a two-year ministry model ending in AD 30.Extrabiblical Darkness Accounts: Some Roman historians, such as Phlegon, mentioned an unusual darkness during the 18th year of Tiberius's reign (which aligns with AD 30/31), which some link to the crucifixion event
The burning of Christians under Nero began shortly after the Great Fire of Rome in July 64 AD, with specific persecutions often noted around July 24, 64 AD

Josephus
The Testimonium Flavianum: The Greek text of Josephus's Antiquities contains a passage about Jesus, known as the Testimonium Flavianum, which most scholars believe has been altered by Christian copyists, even if an original, neutral core reference to Jesus and his followers existed.
About this time there lived Jesus, a wise man, if indeed one ought to call him a man.  For he was one who performed surprising deeds and was a teacher of such people as accept the truth gladly. He won over many Jews and many of the Greeks. He was the Messiah. And when, upon the accusation of the principal men among us, Pilate had condemned him to a cross, those who had  first come to love him did not cease.  He appeared to them spending a third day restored to life, for the prophets of God had foretold these things and a thousand other marvels about him.  And the tribe of the Christians, so called after him, has still to this day not disappeared.
                                - Jewish Antiquities, 18.3.3 §63


The Slavonic Version The Testimonium Flavianum: : This version, which surfaced in the West in the early 20th century after being discovered in Russia, contains a significantly different and more detailed account of Jesus, including a vivid description of his martyrdom at the hands of scribes and Pharisees.

1. At that time also a man came forward,—if even it is fitting to call him a man [simply]. 2. His nature as well as his form were a man's; but his showing forth was more than [that] of a man. 3. His works, that is to say, were godly, and he wrought wonder-deeds amazing and full of power. 4. Therefore it is not possible for me to call him a man [simply]. 5. But again, looking at the existence he shared with all, I would also not call him an angel.6. And all that he wrought through some kind of invisible power, he wrought by word and command.7. Some said of him, that our first Lawgiver has risen from the dead and shows forth many cures and arts. 8. But others supposed [less definitely] that he is sent by God.9. Now he opposed himself in much to the Law and did not observe the Sabbath according to ancestral custom. 10. Yet, on the other hand, he did nothing reprehensible nor any crime; but by word solely he effected everything.11. And many from the folk followed him and received his teachings. 12. And many souls became wavering, supposing that thereby the Jewish tribes would set themselves free from the Roman hands.13. Now it was his custom often to stop on the Mount of Olives facing the city. 14. And there also he avouched his cures p. 107 to the people. 15. And there gathered themselves to him of servants (Knechten) a hundred and fifty, but of the folk a multitude.16. But when they saw his power, that he accomplished everything that he would by word, they urged him that he should enter the city and cut down the Roman soldiers and Pilate and rule over us. 17. But that one scorned it.18. And thereafter, when knowledge of it came to the Jewish leaders, they gathered together with the High-priest and spake: "We are powerless and weak to withstand the Romans. 19. But as withal the bow is bent, we will go and tell Pilate what we have heard, and we will be without distress, lest if he hear it from others, we be robbed of our substance and ourselves be put to the sword and our children ruined." 20. And they went and told it to Pilate.21. And he sent and had many of the people cut down. 22. And he had that wonder-doer brought up. And when he had instituted a trial concerning him, he perceived that he is a doer of good, but not an evildoer, nor a revolutionary, nor one who aimed at power, and set him free. 23. He had, you should know, healed his dying wife.24. And he went to his accustomed place and wrought his accustomed works. 25. And as again more folk gathered themselves together round him, then did he win glory through his works more than all.26. The teachers of the Law were [therefore] envenomed with envy and gave thirty talents to Pilate, in order that he should put him to death. 27. And he, after he had taken [the money], gave them consent that they should themselves carry out their purpose. 28. And they took him and crucified him according to the ancestral law.



Seutionius  The Lives of the Twelve Caears

Claudius
Chapter 25 Since the Jews constantly made disturbances at the instigation of Chrestus, he expelled them from Rome


Nero
Chapter 16  Punishment was inflicted on the Christians, a class of men given to a new and mischievous superstition. [i.e after The Great Fire in Rome see Tacitus  Annals of Rome Part 15 Chapter 44 above]

Tacitus Fragments part 2
It is said that Titus first called a council and deliberated whether he should destroy such a mighty temple. For some thought that a consecrated shrine, which was famous beyond all other works of men, ought not to be razed, arguing that its preservation would bear witness to the moderation of Rome, while its destruction would for ever brand her cruelty. Yet others, including Titus himself, opposed, holding the destruction of this temple to be a prime necessity in order to wipe out more completely the religion of the Jews and the Christians; for they urged that these religions, although hostile to each other, nevertheless sprang from the same sources; the Christians had grown out of the Jews: if the root were destroyed, the stock would easily perish.

The Burning of the second temple in Jerusalem took place in 9th of the Hebrew month of Av,   70 CE

centuries ago in church counsils there was a debate about Christ human/devine natures...if the Shroud of Turin had been avaible it would have answered that question without debate?

It is highly unlikely the Shroud of Turin would have resolved the early Church's debates about Christ's human/divine natures, because the debates were fundamentally theological and philosophical, not matters of physical evidence :o :o

Here's why the shroud wouldn't have definitively answered those questions:
Theological vs. Physical Evidence: The Church Councils (such as Nicaea in 325 AD and Chalcedon in 451 AD) were primarily concerned with defining abstract concepts like the relationship between Jesus and God the Father, and how his human and divine natures could coexist without confusion or separation. These are metaphysical questions about the nature of God, which physical artifacts, no matter how extraordinary, cannot resolve.
Focus of the Debates: The debates centered on scriptural interpretation and precise theological language (e.g., homoousios - "of the same substance") rather than empirical evidence of the crucifixion. The goal was to establish orthodox doctrine to counter teachings considered heretical, such as Arianism (which denied Christ's co-eternality with the Father) or Monophysitism (which claimed Christ had only one, divine, nature).

The debates:
Council of Nicaea I (325 AD): Debated Arianism and the nature of Jesus as the Son of God, resulting in the Nicene Creed which affirmed His divinity as being of the same substance as God the Father.
Council of Ephesus (431 AD): Addressed the nature of Christ, particularly Nestorianism.
Council of Chalcedon (451 AD): Defined the orthodox understanding that Christ has two distinct natures, human and divine, united in one person (hypostasis), without confusion or separation.
Because the shroud was unknown to the Church Fathers and bishops of the first millennium, it could not have been used as evidence in their deliberations.

Theological Interpretation: The Church itself takes no official position on the shroud's authenticity as a relic, instead treating it as an "icon" for devotion and a reminder of Christ's suffering. The image, even if proven to be from the 1st century, would still require an act of faith to be accepted as a miraculous imprint of the resurrected Christ, rather than simply the image of a crucified man.