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What have you encountered that you are almost certain was spiritual warfare rather than a natural occurrence due to Original Sin? ???
I must admit, although a number of things I've seen seem to have been due to spiritual warfare, the natural was also a quite plausible explanation.

I cannot describe it but I can say that the natural/psychological and the spiritual was entwined like the threads of a rope and that it was very painful and yet enlightening at the same time.  I learned a lot.

Not trying to be nosy, but can you specify anymore (comfortably I mean)?

Brigid, I will try later....... not that I don't want to but it was a long time and it is so very hard to put to words.  Only a book would reflect the learnings thereof.

Brigid, do you mean demonic attacks ?

Yes, although not necessarily physical at all.

And Bailey2 - I really understand.

I can't go into more details, except that there was a situation at home months back that wasn't good and my oldest began experiencing weird things. Heavy footsteps in her room after we were all in bed, tapping on the wall, tv turning on its own. It froze her in fear and I started praying the Rosary in her room, blessed it with holy water, St. Michael prayer etc , blessed the children with holy water. After that it would stop for a few days and then it would start again. And I would be in there with my weapons of grace ;D One night i even slept with her to face whatever it was and nothing happened.
Then the family situation changed and she also stopped experiencing the diabolical whatever-it-was. Then again some months back, she began screaming that there was a sharp knocking on the door and I ran to her room and opened the door and she came slept with us. I blessed the room again . And after that incident Praise God and thank St. Michael and our guardian angels, things are back to normal. No trouble.

I think even I may have experienced some thing but not as severe as my girl. I heard a child run to the front door and i was sure my little girl was at the front door and when i went to scold her , there was no one. My girl was watching cartoons in the other room and said she hadn't moved. Some other things happened but I can't mention it here.

Now everything is fine. No problem at all.

Sounds to me that at least a home blessing (hopefully with a home exorcism) might be called for. :-\ If only your daughter heard things I would wonder if there might be something psychological going on, but since you've experienced it, too and with the TV turning on by itself, etc. then well, .........  Maybe some Blessed salt might help, too?  What do the rest of you think about this?

My own experiences haven't been so clearly spiritual (they even caused me to wonder whether I sleep walk without remembering it), although I have had strange 'feelings' and automatically started saying the Rosary and the St. Michael Prayer while holding my scapular that has the MM and St. Benedict Medal on it. Nothing as straightforward as you two seem to have had.

That was on my mind, but now since the activity has stopped I don't see the need. Also had a bad dream some weeks back, and the strange part is I'm not sure if I was awake or if it was a dream, and I felt threatened by some force which scared me so much that I was immobilized. I tried to call out to my daughter but couldn't. I was frozen and all I could muster mentally was "St. Michael, St. Michael" and the force disappeared. It is strange and I wonder if it was just a bad dream . It could also be the psychological state we are in since the recent loss, but I don't rule out my above experience as spiritual warfare. Since I am now about the task of enrolling the children in RCIC was one reason that came to my mind.

I've found that 'sleep paralysis' is very commonly accompanied by demonic attacks. So too these will often occur when a person is half asleep, trying to sleep, or just waking up.

The monster under the bed may in fact, really be there in the spiritual sense, being simply in fact a demon.

Demons like scaring people. Things that go bump in the night are in fact not always people's natural fears and imagination being overactive, but instead either a certain a spiritual awareness or at least influence by the spiritual of the emotions.

This tends to confirm my belief that this state of mind is particular vulnerable to the spiritual -- it is after all similar to the state of mind of people in a state of hypnosis, or a state of simple receptivity, such as from watching television, or, one placed into artificially through meditation techniques from foreign religions, such as mantra repetition.

If you have trouble before sleeping or waking, remember to say special prayers for protection, and to have the habit of praying in troublesome situation so that even if you are dreaming  :D you might do so.

I tend to rarely have 'nightmares' so of those I've had I have been able to tell at times which are from spiritual sources, and thankfully, when you turn to God while dreaming, in prayer or thought this is the answer to a 'nightmare'.

When things are bad, sleep with a blessed crucifix under the pillow.

Holy water.. the St. Benedict medal because of its exorcism blessing these are some of the most effective..  :D

The best holy water is blessed with the old Roman Ritual.

Personally speaking, if possible, I'd definitely still get it Blessed (with exorcism). It's certainly possible that your Holy Water, prayers, and the Sacraments have discouraged demons to leave, but from what I've heard by exorcists, infestations of buildings usually don't totally quit on their own. :shrug: BTW, every few nights I sprinkle my pillow with Holy Water in order to discourage "intrusions" into my dreams. It seems to work - which reminds me, I haven't done it lately and my nightmares are increasing.

Shin, what do you know about the use of Blessed salt? One sees it infrequently these days. Also, I realized when I was reading your post that I had a nightmare quite recently (and hadn't sprinkled my pillow  :D ) where I woke screaming because a priest, who I didn't know, was chasing me. I've never had a priest or anyone chase me nor had I been reading about anything like that happening. :-\

One more thing Shin (or anyone) - I've never heard it mentioned, but do you know whether it's worth it (for more than 10 minutes) to get an apartment Blessed. Since the walls and ceilings/floors are the same as another apartments, it would seem to me to be pointless.

I'll certainly think of getting a priest over if there is one more incident.
Also I want to get a St. Benedict medal. Any ideas where to get one or I could just search the internet. Why is the St. Benedict medal considered so effective against evil spirits?
I have the Brown Scapular with the Miraculous medal on my person so i know I wont be hurt physically even if I'm threatened.
And as Brigid asked, what is blessed salt and how is it different from holy water?

Bailey2 - your last post wasn't ignored. I was thinking of the best way to respond. I didn't want to frustrate you and wanted to explain what the other posters and I meant without shutting you out or writing a dissertation. I think I have an idea but have to put it together. I do understand what you're saying.

Okay, Bailey2 - I think I may have found a way. (Tell me if it doesn't clear things up.)

Does the Church teach that we are to take Jesus' words in John 6:55-57 only symbolically (or allegorically)?  ::)

Does the Church teach that we are to take Jesus' words in Matt. 16:18 only symbolically (or allegorically)?  >:(

Remember, the Church teaches we are to take Scripture both allegorically and literally (not literistically!) - layer upon layer, like St. John's Gospel is a plain example of. Then what does it mean that Satan tempted Jesus in the desert? What does it mean that satan prowls around us like a lion? What does it mean that satan entered into Judas?

So, yes, your comments are a good synthesis of one way that Scripture can be read. There is additional way to look to look at it, that follows what Popes and the Fathers have understood.

Don't worry about shutting me out; I already know you are all very accepting.  :)  Don't worry about frustrating me.  After Lent, I decided I have nothing to prove by trying to get points across here.  I'd be better off listening and learning and maybe sharing this and that.  

But, I think I put myself out there a bit too much in that post and as I told shin once, there are many viewing these forums who aren't contributing..........
And I figured no one could relate anyway.  So both those things.  Interesting that you say you do.

Anyway, I still think of spiritual warfare as the struggle with sin and I think demons are not ghost like; anymore than angels....... as portrayed in pictures.   There are probably scripture and tradition to support otherwise..... fire away if you know them.   ;)



OK girl, you posted after I just finished this so I'll go back and look at all that....... but right now I just want to peek at the other threads and then join the boys here watching the Predators vs Chicago game.  Then, the Red Wings play tomorrow.  Boy this playoff thing is all consuming!  I read while I watch but I like to sit with them.  It's the only time we all can be together.  Teenagers, you know don't like to hang out with mom and dad!

 

Yes, I do understand, even though I disagree with your over-simplification.

We aren't saying that demons present themselves as "ghostlike", however what/who do you think that St. Teresa of Avila was talking to when she woke being strangled by s.... and told him, "Oh, it's only you" before she turned over and went back to sleep? Do you feel it was her sins and and she said "you" only metaphorically? What of St. Padre Pio when he fought the d..... all night and had the scratch marks to prove it the next day? You think that he was mortifying himself for his sins (and had never mortified himself before)?

Yes, although we don't want to give him too much notice so as to give him power to influence us, that doesn't mean we don't acknowledge what Scripture has written of the enemy of God. He may not have red tights and funny horns , but that doesn't mean he doesn't exist as an entity to be avoided (and as St. Teresa of Avila did, scorned). You think that all exorcists "kooky"?

This is not to say that our sins are not related in a real way to this. The d...... takes advantage of our weaknesses due to concupiscence. It is not an either/or situation at all. Just not a single way of understanding Scripture. St. Gregory says of the word "angel" that this is a designation of office not of nature.

Take a look at John 14:30, John 12:31, and John 3:10,8. Or Colossians 1:16.

Well.. Ghostlike hmm..

I missed something here, but if you mean they are not transparent or translucent beings well naturally, a demon can look like anything it wants to, since it is a spiritual being and not a material being. It can affect the material world to a certain degree, by acts of will, they have this ability naturally. So they can stimulate the visual senses to see what they desire it to see.

The spirit is generally said to be something purely intellectual, without material substance. Without any 'substance' at all perhaps? I do not know how set in stone this is, but at least St. Thomas follows it. I have heard there might be a 'spiritual substance' school, if I am using the right words but I have not found the right writings on the topic to expand on the subject.

So let's go with something like the classic definition. Speaking very loosely, spirit is pure intellect, no material substance.

In other words, think of yourself without a body, just being your thoughts.. purely.. You would be invisible, but you would be where your attention was focused.. and yet at the same time since you did not materially exist, you would not be there after a fashion. You would have no length, breadth, density, depth.. you would just be intellect.. and all the intellectual parts you contained..

You would be wherever you focused your attention to be.  

I do think there are particular appearances that best represent what they look like morally and intellectually, they are often described as in bestial forms when they do appear, or as 'snakes' or 'scorpions' which I think goes towards their spiritual nature more than appearance but nevertheless.

When I think of myself without a body, but being who I am, thinking .. It seems to me the existence of the soul, the spiritual self is self-evident. I know 'I'... I 'know' I exist. And this is more than the material can do. Material is just substance. It has effects, it can record things.. it can be as a computer can be.. But it does not have the 'being' of existence, and never can. We can design AI programs to fake it.. but it's all just going through the motions. There's nothing but emptiness inside.

I've seen demons, I do not often like to speak of it, but I have seen them. I know other people who have, it is not so uncommon. Most people do not simply speak of it, or do not realize what it is, writing it off as something else. It is not politically correct and socially acceptable to speak of having seen a demon. :) And the newspapers make it clear that people who do are generally crazy, though they do not go into the 'which came first' aspect of that.

Semi-transparent, translucent, yes that would be common enough. Capable of taking on any appearance, pleasing or horrible, attracting or repelling, yes. And as St. Teresa reacted, yes, you do not need to be startled or disturbed. You simply pray and let it be. They can only do as much as God allows. If they seem to be allowed too much, it may be that our sin is allowing them to do what otherwise they could not do. Giving them authority, since we have put off the authority of God -- and they, as intellectual beings who have always been meant to be purely spiritual, are far more adept in that realm than we in many ways.

Have any of you watched the movie 'Exorcism of Emily Rose'? I liked it. Its based on a true case. And I liked the priest who is the exorcist in the movie. A good example of patience in tribulation. His lawyer is a doubter about the existence of evil spirits till she actually encounters it head on. Satan shifts his anger toward her because she fights the good priest's case.

A wonderful exposition on this, Shin (much better than I could do :-[ ).

I think - tell me if I'm wrong Bailey - that what you meant by ghostlike is like the friends of Casper.
Hollywood versions. At least that's how I understood you. :-\

I've heard, on the radio, a couple of exorcists say that although "The Exorcist" is dramatized and Hollywood has put in their special effects, that "Exorcism of Emily Rose" is fairly accurate as far as a full possession and the exorcism of it. My daughter saw it and really liked it, but said it would be too scary for me to see. I trust her about the movies I can take. She knows my G and PG capabilities ::).

I think you would be scared watching 'The Exorcism of Emily Rose', Brigid. It is not as scary as the' Exorcist' though. You would love the character of the priest in the movie.
Bailey, have you watched it? I don't think Shin has since he does not watch t.v.

I was able to watch (while hiding my eyes every so often) 'The Exorcist' but I was also around 20. 20s are able to take more than 50s.

It probably came across as an oversimplification; 
no, I have not only never had an experience of demons, I have also not had an experience of Eucharist or the Holy Spirit....... at least not for several years now.......... in fact, I feel and experience nothing about nothing; not in prayer, not in thought, and if I try, I am besieged with doubt since I am well educated in psychology but more relevant,  neuro-psych.  I also have nightmares easily so no exorcist films for me...... and even that little thread about the details of end days gave me a nightmare...... my sensitive nature........

I thought this was a thread about spiritual warfare and I assumed that was the war between good and evil, so it would be manifested in sin and virtue.  I am very concrete; I don't pay much attention to things I can't understand or can only conceptualize, mostly because of the above and also because of my experiences with depression, which distorts thought and can leave a lasting painful impression upon the brain.  So,  I just say, "well it is just as plausible as it might not be and so I just ascent since the church teaches it.  Lord I belief, help my unbelief."  I do the same for Eucharist and Holy Spirit inspiration, re: my writings.
As I said, I feel and experience nothing at all...... and I mean nothing at all, in my emotions or my intellect.

Off to work.........

Your faith is strong. That is what matters finally.

Yes truly!

 :D

That is exactly what Jesus wanted us to do. You are like the centurion of whom Jesus said, "Amen, I say to you, I have not found so great faith in Israel." Matt 8:10

Well you are all so sweet.  I guess I explained it better this time.   O:)

I think much of what I experience as spiritual attack is somehow related to sin, but a couple times it wasn't. Once, I felt a very evil presence in my house but it went away when I sprinkled the room with holy water. (and I used a lot of it, lol.)

Another time, I experienced probably the worst thing that's ever happened to me... it was like something was trying to get into my mind, there was such a sense of oppression. I felt completely sure that I am going to hell simply because I am Catholic, and that I must get out of the Church. This was soon after my conversion. It was such a horrible feeling that I thought I was either possessed, or insane. I prayed but nothing helped... then I took my Rosary and put it around my neck, because that's what I read St Dominic and St Louis de Montfort used to do when people were assaulted by demons. I called upon Mary for help.. and instantly, everything went away and my mind returned to normal. It took me the whole evening to get over this though.

Demons are real :(

I use a lot of it too, the more the merrier..

Did someone ask something about blessed salt on some thread? I forget? Blessed salt is used in making holy water.. the proper blessing from the older prayers of the Roman Ritual contain exorcisms blessings for it too. And so it is useful especially in spiritual warfare because of this.

Also, it doesn't dry up.

This I might add, seems key.  :D

Try to get holy water blessed with the old Roman Ritual, it will be more effective, the prayers have more to them (http://www.daytonlatinmass.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/blessing-of-water.pdf).  :)

how do you get holy water blessed with the old Roman Ritual? Do the FSSP bless water in this way? because next year I'll be living in a new place and I'll be able to attend an FSSP parish every week.  :D

God is looking after you! To have [edited] around is priceless.

Some of the priests who do not do the traditional mass, will still do the traditional Roman Ritual blessing. The only way to find out if they do so, is to ask if they do it or not. I had the blessing of having such a priest near me when I lived upstate. Whew.

Whether you can get the older stuff or not, never be without holy water. :) It's priceless, and used devoutly, washes away our sins.

I will ask for the old Roman ritual when I get holy water blessed next time. An older priest may know it . Thanks for all the tips.


Isn't our loving Mother prompt to rescue us?

My daughter who experienced evil in a very strong manner as I've told above experienced the same relief when she started praying Hail Marys.

Another time , years back we were driving  up the wrong way on a one-way street late at night (don't ask why, that is another story :( ) I literally saw cars coming at us. I had my oldest child who was then a baby in the back seat and I was petrified. All I could muster was the Hail Mary and I didn't even get the words right. Not a single car hit us, though there was a din of angry honking  and we got into a parking lot and were safe. Phew, even the memory of that makes me cold with fear of what could have happened . I believe it was Our Lady to the rescue even though I jumbled up the Hail Marys. :D

What is the full form of F.S.S.P.? Is it the SSPX?

Secondly, Shin I think you missed an earlier question Brigid and I asked. What should be the material that blessed candles need to be made of. I got candles from wal mart , and they are vanilla, and got them blessed. Is that wrong?

F.S.S.P. is the Fraternal Society of St. Peter, they are a different group, not the same as the F.S.S.P.X. or S.S.P.X. Try searching for info on them! Great folks. :D Fr. Ripperger is one of them! They only celebrate the Latin Mass and are approved by the Popes.

Let's see the blessed candles would be for use during the Three Days of Darkness, let me post the reply on that thread.

Wow, since this was soon after your conversion and you were thinking that you had to get out of the Church -  :o

The properties of blessed salt last longer than blessed water that is sprinkled, so the blessing of your room lasts longer with the blessed salt.  I'd be sure to have a priest bless and exorcise my house, if I could get one to and was experiencing strange phenomena.  I asked a friar to bless and exorcise my apartment, but he only blessed it.  I wish he exorcised it, too.  I'll have another priest do that.

In this area even getting a house blessing is hard. I asked our priest to bless my apt. and no response at all. Maybe one of the monks nearby will do both for me. :shrug:

That's too bad about your priest.  I'd ask one of the monks who is a priest to bless your home.  Everyone's home should be blessed.

Do you happen to know if blessing an apartment would do any good (since the walls and ceiling are other apartment's too) for any length of time anyway?

To my knowledge it makes a big difference.  What is within the walls will always be blessed, despite unblessed surroundings (outside the windows, walls, doors, etc.).

Brigid, If you can't get a monk to bless your home I'd ask your parish priest again.  It's the duty of the parish priest to bless the home of a parishioner who needs his/her home blessed.  If he's very busy, it's expected that you'll have to wait a while for him to come to your home, but he should still come at an opportune time.

Thanks. I've wondered it for some time (about apts). I didn't realize it's a duty of the parish priest! I will try the monk tho' now. It's been over a year, so I don't think the priest even has it on his 'radar' anymore.

You are welcome, Brigid.

If it isn't the responsibility of your parish priest (or deacon) to bless your home, then whose would it be?  Only priests and deacons can bless a home and having one's home blessed isn't a luxury, but an everyday part of Christian living.

When a home is blessed it is more peaceful.  :D

Just as when you say grace, the food is better!

Yes, I agree.

Anyone read this book?   I couldn't keep it down. I found it in the public library

Possessed: The true story of an exorcism    By Allen, Thomas B.

Library Journal Review

In 1949, a teenage boy in suburban Washington, D.C., exhibited signs of demonic possession. His desperate family moved him to a relative's home in St. Louis, where they persuaded a team of Jesuit priests to perform an exorcism (a practice unheard of at the time). William Peter Blatty noticed a news article concerning the incident, which provided him with the inspiration for his novel and screenplay The Exorcist . Allen, coauthor with Norman Polmar of several American histories, based his work on a secret diary of one member of the exorcism team and personal interviews with another. His account is horrific, and he will succeed in forcing even highly skeptical, worldly readers into doubting their preconceived ideas about the ``medieval'' notion of demonic possession. Recommended for most collections.

Publisher weekly Review

A recently discovered diary kept by a Jesuit priest who participated in an exorcism in 1949 records the chilling events recreated here. When a 13-year-old boy, Robbie Mannheim (a pseudonym), the only child of a Lutheran family in Maryland, was declared exorcised, the news prompted the writing of William Peter Blatty's bestselling novel The Exorcist , and a film of the same name. Far different from these accounts, the actual exorcising took place over months and in several locations, including a St. Louis hospital. There a team of Jesuits sought to release the boy from physical harm (seizures and spontaneously appearing bleeding wounds) and other manifestations of diabolical influence to which he often seemed curiously indifferent. Allen ( War Games ), who was educated in Jesuit schools but is no longer a practicing Catholic, reveals the agonizing struggles of the priests who became involved. While Church officials are reticent about this incident and psychiatrists don't give credence to diabolical possession, the documentation presented here is credible and eerily fascinating.

Makes one wonder how many people in mental institutions would truly benefit from an exorcism.

no comment  >:(

Okay, what's wrong with that thought? :-\

In one word: schizophrenia

The info was based on 1949 observations and medical knowledge....... we now actually have genetic info regarding that and other illnesses.  I'm one of those terrible mental health workers talked about above.............. a mentally ill person can believe many things and bring them to fruition.   You'd be surprised. 

The boy who was exorcised had no mental problems, by the way. A perfectly normal kid.

About mental illness, I was watching a show about a lady with multiple personality disorder. She had invented those personalities in her mind to buffer sexual abuse as a child. So sometimes she was a little girl coloring, sometimes a teenage girl, sometimes a teenage boy (who could do play basket ball backwards, everytime ,without looking,  perfectly in the hoop!!!!!!!!!!!!!) Very sad. :(

In the Gospels we read how our Lord cast out demons. It seemed like a daily occurance and the apostles where also comissioned to do the same.
I've often wondered where all these demons hve gone.. Have they suddenly all disappeared or don't they bother anymore with possessing people?
I beleve they are still here and doing what they've always done but in our age of PC it sounds so old-fashioned to believe that.
If more consideration was given to this possibility then it may well be to the benefit of the ailing patiant which is (or should be) the primary concern.

Patricia, most multiple personality can be treated with medication now, rejoice! 
(and I don't believe that boy was healthy; I don't trust observations from the 40's....... but whatever...... not worth an argument..... haven't read the book, hated the Exorcist  :shrug:).

Martinfegan, there was a thread here we had to abandon because I don't quite believe that in all cases, those demons Jesus caste out were really demons.  The people who wrote the gospels also wrote them through their human minds and understanding of things at the time.  But I don't want to start that thread again.  It became quite heated if I remember correctly since all here are really into demons. I think the devil is elusive, insidious, and hidden and not so dramatically manifest.  He's much more effective behind the scenes and in my estimation would not be beyond using the dramatic as a smokescreen for his real influence. 

"I do not fear Satan half so much as I fear those who fear him."  St. Teresa of Avila

#1, I wasn't saying that all people in mental institutions are possessed - by a long shot. #2 Exorcists I have heard have said that the d..... uses human weaknesses [such as genes] to oppress/possess people #3 think of how medical knowledge and scientific knowledge have changed in the last 150 years. We look down our noses at the knowledge then, so there's no reason to believe that that will be any different 150 years from now about our current state of knowledge #4 I, for one, know about the many things implicated in epilepsy, however I also know that my seizures (not the brain wave patterns) stopped at my baptism.

I, too, have wondered martin, about all those demons and the possible implications for medical treatment.

St. Teresa's disregard for demons mimics that of Jesus. That doesn't mean that he didn't cast them out of people.

I mentioned on the thread you are referring to as to what I heard a number of exorcists say about "The Exorcist" movie. I also mentioned what I heard them say about the movie "Emily Rose".

How neat Brigid, seizures ceasing after baptism!   :D

I actually think all these things we are getting into now fall into the unanswerable questions category.  Tires my poor brain.  Hey but when you said that about St Teresa minicing Jesus?  I had this image in my mind of Jesus walking by a possessed person (like in King of Kings) as He was conversing with his apostles and waving His hand in disgust as if dismissing the thing....... and just kept walking.  I know these things are supposed to be serious but I couldn't help but giggle the image in my mind.

I'll have to post some of what I've read of St. Jane Francis on this very issue when I have time.......

Again I know that the Church is very cautious about people who ask for exorcisms and make sure that they do not have mental health problems. They watch the case very carefully and only if completely convinced that this is Satanic possession call in the exorcist. Levitation, speaking in foreign tongues, strangest things happening that is so obviously diabolic call for an exorcism.

The reason I liked the above book is that it is written by a non-believer and is therefore unbiased. He writes without any personal emotion or belief, and writes as a reporter reporting facts he has in hand. Thats the reason you would like the book, Bailey. I would certainly recommend this book to anyone who thinks that Satan is elusive, hidden  and not manifest dramatically.

And one does not fear the devil, but one must not reject his presence in the world either, especially tormented souls who need the help of an exorcist. Talk to an exorcist priest and he will tell you what he encounters and how much good he does the soul who needs his help.

Fair enough Patricia!  Someday when I have time, I'll ask you about that book!  Actually, I've never seen levitation, etc but yes, that would be disturbing...... and not mental illness. 

But, I want to be certain you know: I absolutely believe in the devil's/evil's presence on the earth.  Oh, and I still think the devil is elusive, hidden, and (OK) mostly not manifested dramatically.  But dramatics certainly would cause fear and so that is a good side effect of dramatics.  More fear, less love as scripture says. 

And oh dear Patricia, I wouldn't like a book because it is written by an atheist!  ..............Unless you meant I'd like it because of a dispassionate reporting style.  Yes, you'd be right about that ......... how well you know me if that is what you meant! 

Yes, Bailey. I meant you'd like the reporting and unbiased style of writing. :)


Fortunately, the devil is not permitted by God to be manifested always which is good for most of us. But for those poor souls who are oppressed the exorcist Priest comes to the rescue , as Jesus did while on earth.

I heard that demonic possesion is nowhere near as common after Christ came as it was before He came, when a great deal of the world was mixed up in practicing occult paganism/idolatry and not living the life of faith like the Hebrews, God's small group of chosen ones were and like the Christians who followed them were doing.
Before Christ, the world was under Satan's dominion with full rigor...there was no baptism or sanctifying grace to help souls be safe from Satan's domination either.

The exorcism given at our baptism is real and delivers the baptized soul from real bondage (some people who don't have the proper prayer of exorcism prayed over them encounter real problems with Satanic possesion in their lives, as has been documented).  I wonder if Protestant ordained ministers have to power/authority to perform these exorcisms at baptism and pray the prayer of exorcism over the people they are baptizing.

Therese, but now I wonder if its all coming back. I see paganism and idolatory rampant in South Asia, persecution of Christians etc. Occultism in Africa and other places. Other terrible sins like homosexuality coming out in the open. Our world today seems a breeding ground for evil spirits.

Yes, I agree, Patricia.

Yes, the Church is very, very careful. Only in cases where medicine or psychiatry doesn't help the person is an exorcist called in.

I would also agree that possession and oppression are seeming to make a come back in some parts of the world. Anyway, that's what I've heard. It's especially bad in Rome - for obvious reasons.

I want to thank you all for contributing to my nightmares last night!!!   >:(
Think I'll stay away from threads like this!

Haven't read it! I may put it on my list!

I have a few books on exorcism, two of Fr. Gabriel Amorth's, which are quite good practical books, with few flaws, though not as in depth as one might like on some subjects because they are just that, practical workbooks dealing with basics.. One gets the impression that the exorcists keep a certain amount of information to themselves for prudent reasons.

 :biggrin:

Didn't mean to scare you, Bailey.  ;D Sorry.


Shin, the book is very good. I feel it increases faith in the Catholic church because you see the devil operating openly right there , and how it takes Jesuit priests  to get rid of him. A Protestant pastor tries but doesn't succeed.
I want to caution you or any sensitive person (Bailey :)) out there, that there are some vulgar parts in the book where the devil blasphemes through the boy, so be prepared for that. Not a book for children.

Yes, one of the reasons I've actually tended to not go after these books as much as I might is that I don't want to expose myself to troublesome material. 

Though thankfully, somehow, with my readings I've encountered enough in the saints to make me feel I know some of the basics.

It's clear that exorcism is supposed to be much more widespread than it is -- it is for example more common in Africa and countries where people are more spiritually aware then educated to not believe in it. That in these developed countries it is so rare..

Is I think one of the greatest punishments we can be visited with honestly. I am certain it would change so many lives if it were not, so fundamentally for the better.

It's clear that exorcism is supposed to be much more widespread than it is -- it is for example more common in Africa and countries where people are more spiritually aware then educated to not believe in it. That in these developed countries it is so rare..

 I can’t recall who coined the phrase, “Educated into imbecility” but it could apply much to the western world.

Why would someone want to delve into hate and evil?  For education?  For tantalizing the mind and imagination?   I am glad I am sensitive to evil and dark things; makes me spend most of my time looking at beauty and light.   :D

 :thumbsup:


I know for me it's both because it helps to make the entire spiritual world more real for me and admittedly, also due to curiosity. I do need to make sure I follow it up shortly with some good spiritual reading or it gives me nightmares, too. In fact, I like to either read Scripture or to pray before sleep at night so that my dreams are good (besides making more of a 'connection' with Him). My daughter saw Emily Rose and told me I shouldn't see it unless others were there and also that it should be in the morning. Hearing about exorcism on talk radio doesn't bother me, however I can't read about it in the evening.

Not to be precocious but God speaks through dreams; maybe nightmares are trying to tell you something. 
I read holy things before bed and sleep better that way also.  I don't sleep well when I have to sit through a "guy" movie that is particularly intense or suspenseful. 

:speachless: :D


I don't either, or after a gory one (unless the person is on a  :hospitaltrip: ).

Neither do I. Stopped watching anything scary now that I'm alone with the kids.

Flowers anyone?   :flower:

Wonderful! (sneeze, sneeze, sneeze).

Here's how I feel about spending time thinking about demons, devils, evil, and reading things about the extraordinary:

Psalm 131
O Lord, my heart is not proud,
nor are my eyes haughty;
I busy not myself with great things
nor with things too sublime for me.
Nay rather, I have stilled and quieted
my soul like a weaned child.
Like a weaned child on its mother's lap
so is my soul within me.


and

John 16:33
I have told you this so that you might have peace in Me. 
In the world you will have trouble, but take courage, I have conquered the world.

And that way, I mind my own business and tend to my affairs as the corporal being I am and don't worry about it.
Seems that is what God wants of me since it disturbs me so much to think of such things.   :shrug: