Saints' Discussion Forums

Thinking about what Patricia said in her post entitled “A Funny Sign”


Do you think open confession is a good or bad thing? I personally think it a bad thing and should be abolished for the following reasons.
A)   It leaves the priest vulnerable to becoming overly familiar with women and I’ve read that certain satanic cults have   used this situation specifically to tempt priests. They do this by sending female followers to open confessionals and over time build a relationship with their target priest eventually hoping to lead him away from his vows. This has happened to 3 priests in our city and I suspect that 2 of these started in the confessional.

B)   The fact that the penitent in some cases has no option but to face the priest may make it more difficult to confess and even deter people from going to confession altogether.
I personally feel that open confessions have been a grave error in judgment by church leaders and can’t find one positive benefit that could outweigh the negative…. Does anyone agree?

Yes, I think open confessionals should be a choice for men, but women should choose the screen.  I usually choose the open confession if its an old priest, but come to think about what Martin said,  I think I'll stick to the screen from now on, old or young priest.

Although I haven't personally had any experience like that in an open confessional I would imagine it can certainly happen - also with young'uns. Also I would think that priests (and the confessee) can become used to thinking that it's the human aspect of the priest that is giving absolution - rather similar in some aspects to the priest turning around to the people during a Mass as if he were an entertainer.

I have felt b) whenever I've had to do 'open confession'. I really dislike it! Maybe the 'there are no mortal sins' crowd like it for that very reason.

What are you all meaning by "open confession?"   ???

You know when you go into confession and it's more like a room with priest sitting on one chair and you sit facing him on another face to face..

I don't know any other kind of confessional.  Except in the very old churches, they all have been modified to offer BOTH behind a screen or face to face.  Is that what you meant?  I thought it may be when you have a penance service and everyone is going to confession together with multiple priests.

 This may be why some priests are resorting to (what I call) special offers, where the priest announces that if you come to confession today you only have to tell one sin and you will be forgiven all the others automatically.
I don't think that's even a valid confession

Yes that's the one I meant. Some churches now don't offer the old form at all.

Ah,  well you know what I'm going to say....... right?   ::)

I did my life confession face to face.  Meant a lot to me that way.  Behind a screen with an anonymous priest would have been like keeping the sins hidden rather than out in the open.  Presently, I confess to my spiritual director, the one who heard that first confession after two months of pushing for it.  Sometimes I confess in his office, which actually has a window in the door (he installed them on all the office windows because of the sex abuse problems).  So there you have it.   :shrug:

I find penance services odd and not very confidential.  I have heard instructions that this form is not for those with serious sins but only venial sins (and that's why only confess a few).  I think however like anything else, abuses on that occur.  However, I know women who were molested in confessionals, being lured in week after week with the priest being sure he was a constant behind the screen.  Abuses can occur in any way with any form............

But generally speaking, you know me......... whatever is OK with the Church and whatever facilitates conversion for the person is good.

I have seen different kinds of confessionals. When I was in India, we always had  a screen separating us form the priest, which is the best I think. (Now that Martin has got me thinking about it). When I came here,  the first parish I went to had only a screen and darkened room, so there was no way for the priest to see or be seen, only heard.  Really good. Next parish I went to , the priest heard my confession while he was at his desk, and I on the chair opposite. Now the present parish I go to has the option of open or screen.

Come to think of it, what Martin says is true. The priest must be protected from being over familiar with women and thus risking  his own soul. Women probably don't realize  what risk they may be placing even innocently. And the satanic cults using this is highly possible. When I went for an open confession since I was comfortable with the priest being old, the priest had closed his eyes all the time.  He had devised his own way of keeping his eyes mortified. So next time its screen for me. Thanks for getting me to think, Martin.

Baily2.... Maybe in an ideal world yes but in the present dangerous climate I believe it's not worth the risk and thats what it really is, A risk.


 And thakyou too Patricia for bringing it to mind in your post.

Hmm......
A) Women try to tempt priests in the workplace, through counseling sessions, and after every mass; just as men have tried to tempt me in counseling settings where sensitive information is also disclosed.   But, I also know of priests who have targeted women to lead them into a situations breeding familiarity so that he can break his vows.  In either case,  HE is in the position of authority and therefore more culpable.  The priest is responsible for himself...... in any situation.  Doesn't matter if some Satanic cult sends sirens to him....... or some unhappily married women finds him attractive..... or if he finds a woman attractive and deludes himself into believing that as a man he can't control himself and therefore it is her fault.     Temptations will inevitably occur...... in and out of the confessional.  

B) Screened confessions should be made available; both are supposed to be provided.

C) If we trust the church doesn't make errors in some things (celibate priests) perhaps we should trust them in others even if we disagree.    

My point is that the ones concerning the confessional can be easily avoided by using the traditional way.
All things holy (especially all things holy) should be protected from becoming occasions of sin.
Even we who are not religious are meant to avoid near occasions of sin. In fact it's one of the conditions for receiving absolution. I agree the priest should be responsible for his own actions and for that reason he should be careful concerning this possible occasion.


I do trust that the church can't err in her dogmatic teachings but I believe that leaders can err in their judgement. I believe open confession was an error of judgement and an uncalled for break with tradition. Celibate priesthood has been a Long held tradition and when tradition stands the test of a few hundred years I believe it becomes a dogma.

Well dear, I think we are going to have to agree to disagree on this one.   ::)

The body is the temple of the Holy Spirit; I know nothing that can be holier than that...... except God Himself.
And I can only say that I know for fact that the traditional trappings that surround the practice of the sacrament (ie. screens) have not in the past prevented abuse-- verbal or sexual.  They also have not been the tradition of the practice of the sacrament except since the middle ages..... oh yes, the practice originated in Ireland I believe.   ;D 

And on a personal note, I consider face-to-face confession a welcome relief and would not be inclined to practice it in other ways without undue stress.  I also know people who feel the same way because of the claustrophobic feel and "darkness" of that kind of setting and for some, experiences they have had there.  So, I think the Church was wise to create options for everyone.  

Celibate priesthood is another perhaps "hands-off" topic for this forum!   ;D

Even though it’s not the flavor of the month where I live I guess I’m just an old traditionalist at heart (I can picture the surprised look on your face).   :)
But just to prove I’m not too set in my ways, If I were pope I’d make it a rule (in fact I think I’d make it a dogma) that anyone wanting open confession would fill out a form stating their reasons, enclose a Dr certificate proving claustrophobia, have it signed by their great grandparents and then hand deliver it in person to me in Rome… Surely you can’t get fairer than that.  ???
But until then I’m agreeing to differ. Can't find a white flag smiley so will wave this bell instead   :angelbell:

Getting late here so good night all   :+:

If a priest wants to stay chaste he must avoid undue interaction with women, is what I feel. So screen in a confessional is just one little way to help. Besides he must also avoid socializing with women outside the confessional. Even the Catholic woman should know her boundaries while talking with a priest. She should be reserved and respectful and not too jovial with him. I was watching a woman talking to a young priest in our parish the other day, and felt she was standing too close.  Not that she had anything inappropriate in mind, but it's respectful to the dignity of a priest  to keep more of a distance from him,  physical and emotional.  This is my opinion. Sometimes it is not possible to avoid socializing, but a certain reserve must be maintained.

G'night Martin.

 :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:  I am certainly glad you are not pope!!

To a degree I agree.  But being there are an awful lot of women working with priests right now, I don't see how it is practical that they avoid them.  Nor do I think a man is somehow unable to control himself around women.  I expect my adolescent, testosterone filled sons to control themselves around women.  Why would I think a grown man can't do the same? ............. And people laugh together (hopefully).  

I see it as a matter of personal boundaries pertaining to authority positions.  It is unethical for me to be friends with the people who come to me for counseling..... even if they really want that badly and even if it is not sexually motivated.  And as a person in authority, it is my responsibility to see to it that the professional line is firm.  So I see that true for a priest.  And I am not sure they are trained well in this skill.  They either hide behind closed doors or high pedestals out of reach and cannot relate to people or they get too chummy.  Either way, they are then ineffective as priests.  Jesus was not chummy but neither was he aloof.  And horrors to the people of that time, He actually TOUCHED women.  So, I think there needs to be balance. 

Thats true. Can't avoid them.  But the priest needs to keep that aura of reserve around him.


You understand better, Bailey, being in that position of authority. You get what I'm trying to say. :)

I still know that I (and I'm sure many others) feel terrible and afraid of doing a face to face confession - especially with someone of the opposite gender. Some might feel fine with it - if they're in a profession that calls for it, if they are afraid of being in a screen-type confessional, etc. -  but there needs to be the option of a screen because if not some will just not go to confession :o. From what I've seen at my parish where one of the priests insists on face to face confession, the priest that has the screen is the one with long confessional lines.  :shrug:

I still know that I (and I'm sure many others) feel terrible and afraid of doing a face to face confession - especially with someone of the opposite gender where no screen is an option. Some might feel fine with it - if they're in a profession that calls for it, if they are afraid of being in a screen-type confessional, etc. -  but there needs to be the option of a screen because if not (and I've only venial sins) I'll just not go to confession. From what I've seen at my parish where one of the priests insists on face to face confession, the priest that has the screen is the one with long confessional lines.  :shrug:

:rotfl: :rotflblue: :happyroll:

I always confess behind the screen to the Franciscan brothers. The confessional is split in 2, the penitent on one side, the priest on the other, a metal grill, 2 separate doors. I find this set-up the best way for me to confess my sins especially embarrassing ones :-[
I have confessed face to face to my Oblate priest, who I have been in my Oblate group with for 4 years now. But I am very, very aware of boundaries. He is about my age, and I have been told I am an attractive woman (?? beats me!! ;D ) and I am so careful about how I conduct myself around him, as with every other man, but more so. And careful not to be alone with him except in matters of confession O:)

The word Boundaries sums it all up.
 As well as setting our own personal boundaries I feel there should be inbuilt boundaries that everyone can know, respect and adhere too. When it is left to the individual layperson or priest to set their own limits then there could well be as many variations of limits as there are people.
I remember once receiving a letter from the principal of my daughter’s school informing the parents that the pupils would no longer be having a day off on holy days of obligation. On inquiring if Mass would be celebrated in the school so as the pupils could fulfil their obligation, She said "No. The children should be left to decide for themselves and either go to mass before or after school."
I replied, In that case then can the pupils decide for themselves whether to wear the school uniform or not? Or can they choose to ignore the bell between lessons and decide for themselves whether to attend the next class or not.
“Of course not,” she said.
In that case I said, my daughter won’t be deciding for herself concerning mass and won’t be attending school on Holy days.

There are plenty of boundaries imposed for the smooth running of temporal affairs but when it comes to Spiritual things it seems anything goes.
Our Lord certainly recognised this when He said,
“for the sons of this age are more shrewd in relation to their own kind than the sons of light”.  (Luke 16:8)

Structure is a good thing.   :D

And so are open confessions.   :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

I had an interesting discussion today with my sp dir about confessionals (among other things more important obviously). 
He said if a person wants to repent, he doesn’t care if he is behind a screen, face to face, in the church, in the office, or anywhere else (the thought of seeing pictures of priests hearing confessions along the side of the road on pilgrimages came to mind).  He said once a priest says, “you must kneel behind a screen or you must sit face to face,” he makes himself powerful by taking away choice.  He said the temptation to abuse power is a great one for priests so he just assume leave it up to the penitents where they want to confess since it is about them anyway.  That is why there is always a choice in our parish.
Just thought I’d share that; not that it is right or wrong. But I found it interesting.

But, now I have to go mull over the rest of our meeting, which was .......... hmm, I'm at a loss right now...........  :happywave:

I can see why he'd say this, however I think that would only be true of perfect contrition and not imperfect (which is what I think is my state  ::) :-[ )

I wish I had a good spiritual director.....

When I had one I don't remember that he said a whole lot, but one time when I talked to a priest at my parish (not about anything about the church at all) he talked quite a bit - so it must depend on the individual personality.

Bailey, do you go to your Sp Dir. for confession? It makes sense, but I'd feel strange about it.

I've read that once you find a good spiritual director you stick to him since he knows you very well by now, knowing all your sins , your personality, your frailties etc. and is better able to advise you.
But beware of a spiritual director who gives you wrong advice. You are better off alone then.  To have  a spiritual director to whom you confess. I'd feel strange too, unless I was as comfortable with him as I was with my own father.

How do you tell tho' if he's giving you the wrong advice tho' (if its about you personally, not about the teachings of the Church)?

I don't think I'd want to confess to my own father either. The only person that I might be okay with hearing my confession is my brother (I don't care what he thinks of me, he's stuck with me as a sister - something I loved to remind him of when we were young). I know, I'm too worried about human respect. Well, maybe I wouldn't mind confessing to one of you. You guys are able to take me with a grain (or two) of salt.

Wow ! :o   I didn't mean to start such a lively discussion! 

I'm not sure how you mean that..... that one should use a screen until contrition is perfect?   I vaguely have heard those terms but truthfully, I never give them a thought.  I figure there is no such thing as "perfect" contrition since no one is perfect.   ???

You do!  Your children, the Saints,  and the Holy Spirit in your heart.  Until I was 47 (3 yrs ago), I never had a so called, "director."  And, while there is some good in having a "director,"  I recognize that only God is my true director.  In fact, once I refrained from seeing him for 3 months because I felt I was getting to dependent on him...... and I never told him I was doing that; just didn't call. 
So different ways to gain support, spiritual companionship (including this forum), and guidance at different times come in different ways. 

YES!   :D

Comfortable with him as with Jesus in that setting.
Comfortable with him as there for me and not himself in the other setting.


In my case, he has never given me advice except when he told me to completely stop drinking  (I was depressed at the time over some losses and using that as a crutch) and when he told me to do a life inventory and confess it.  When I complained (for 3 months!), he just listened patiently and offered to have someone else hear that confession if I wished (he ended up hearing it).  But after those two things, he has never given me advice, only things to think about.  He says the Holy Spirit is my director.  But this is all just me; other people have other experiences.

Well, that must be your "calling" here, like Patricia is our expert on Our Lady of Fatima. It's great.



Good reason to always use the screen. :biggrin:



Maybe that must have been why the one I had didn't seem to say much. He didn't give any advice (although he did talk throughout our conversation - but didn't give "homework assignments" :D  like yours). I know he would have been happy to hear my confessions, but I was never brave enough. Well, St. Therese never found a spiritual director she really liked and said that God was hers.

Bailey, I think you've found another topic for you to get us into a lively discussion about - spiritual directors.

there's a thread on that already somewhere ............

OK, Brigid, could you help me here?  What exactly is "perfect" vs "imperfect" contrition?  And why would the latter require a screen, while the former not?    ???
I honestly don't know; as I said, simply heard the words floating around there.  Figure now there must be something technical I don't know.  Thanks.

Ok, Bailey - from the CCC (Catechism):

1452 - When it arises [repentance, sorrow for sins]* from a love by which God is loved above all else, contrition is called "perfect" (contrition of charity). Such contrition remits venial sins; it also obtains forgiveness of mortal sins if it includes the firm resolution to have recourse to sacramental confession as soon as possible.

1453 - The contrition called "imperfect" (or "attrition") is also a gift of God, a prompting of the Holy Spirit. It is born of the consideration of sin's ugliness or the fear of eternal damnation and the other penalties threatening the sinner (contrition of fear). Such a stirring of conscience can initiate an interior process which under the prompting of grace, will be brought to completion by sacramental absolution. By itself however imperfect contrition cannot obtain the forgiveness of grave sins, but it disposes one to obtain the forgiveness in the sacrament of Penance.
_________________________________________________________________________________
*my words are in the brackets [ ].

The reason for wanting the screen with imperfect contrition is because one is confessing at least partially due to the fear of h____ therefore some embarrassment for the sins might be present :-[. With perfect contrition one would not care if the confession were face to face or wherever since one is feeling the sorrow of their sins totally and not caring about human respect at all. My comment was somewhat tongue-in-cheek, too.

thank you.  :)

;) :D

 :crucifix:

I stumbled across this today, while looking for another subject:  :D


Can. 964 §1 The proper place for hearing sacramental confessions is a church or oratory.

§2 As far as the confessional is concerned, norms are to be issued by the Episcopal Conference, with the proviso however that confessionals, which the faithful who so wish may freely use, are located in an open place, and fitted with a fixed grille between the penitent and the confessor.

§3 Except for a just reason, confessions are not to be heard elsewhere than in a confessional.

- Code of Canon Law (1983)

The older Canon Law of 1917 (I  normally prefer it of course):

Canon 908

§1 The proper place for hearing confessions is a church or public or semi-private oratory.

Canon 909

§1 The confessional seat for hearing the confessions of women must always be placed in an obvious and conspicious spot and generally [be located] in a church or public or semi-public oratory assigned to women.

§2 The confessional seat must have inserted a thin, fixed perforated screen between the penitent and confessor.

Canon 910

§1 The confessions of women should not be heard outside a confessional seat except in cases of illness or other true necessity, and following the precautions the local Ordinary decides are appropriate.

§2 The confessions of men may be heard licitly even in any private building.

That about sums it all.

Shin,  I am confused between the different Canons and what years, etc.  It all seems to run together and in one case contradict each other.  Could you re-post or edit so the years are separated and the Canons are closer together under the year....... or something like that?  Thanks.

but I have to add that these days ..... the stringent rules specifically for women would need to also be put in place for men, teens, and children.

'Women and priests have to be as distant from each other as two opposite poles, if not in actual distance apart, at least in heart and will. Let women come to the church, to the confessional, if they have need of a priest; let them meet outside these places, if it is necessary; but let it be as rarely as possible and with proper precaution; for the rest, let them keep their own places and look after their own business; and when a necessity to speak occurs let the priest remember: Sermo brevis cum mulieribus et rigidus est habendus, and as Saint Bonaventure says: "let thy conversation be dignified and serious".'

St. Joseph Cafasso, 'The Priest, The Man Of God, His Dignity and Duties'

During Lent here in the Philippines, we have what we call KUMPISALANG BAYAN (roughly translated... confession for the nation).  It means a certain day is given where everybody who wants to go to confession can come. I think our church do this so that it gives the people a chance to at least comply with the Church requirement to at least go to confession once year.  Usually this is set on Holy Wednesday and/or Holy Thursday ... either the start will be in the morning or in the evening.  One time I went to this it was Thursday starting at 7 pm.  Our church can probably hold around 500 to 700 people, I think  ???  One pew can sit 8 to 10 people. There are, I think 15 pews in one row and there are 5 rows of pews.  We only have one confessional box.  The priest is in the middle and 2 people at each side.  One priest cannot hear the confession of 500 people.  So our church had... 6 or 8 priest in different places in the church.  Where the priest is sitting, a kneeller pew is beside him for the one who will confess.  The priests were placed far enough so that the confession of the person will not be heard by those who are waiting for their turn.  I was in the 5th row. 

Since our priest here can celebrate mass in government offices, there are times also during Lent that the priest would give confession in the office and in a room, people would be waiting for their turn and the priest would be just far enough from the others for privacy of what the penant will confess.

I also prefer to confess in a confessional booth... but at times it is not always available.