Saints' Discussion Forums

A twig and a beam...

No coincidence that analogy there! (there are no coincidences  :D)

And here I thought he was going go use 'spark' and 'fire'!

Until reading this quote I never thought of anger as just another way of judging people.

I tend to think of hate and murder, and how, when we hate someone we wish that person to be 'gone' so it can become a kind of 'murder' of the mind..

Of course it's perfectly necessary and natural to hate evil, and to use anger to repel it at times, and to exercise justice against it.

But, one simply has to be so very careful and measured and prudent about it..

I recall once a sermon, I think by Fr. Ripperger, perhaps..

About how Adam and Eve, had perfect control over their interior lives before the Fall.

In other words, if Adam had a cause to get angry for something, he would decide to be angry, and would be so for just the right amount and as long as needed, and then, just as quickly he would not be angry anymore when it was no longer called for.

Well..  :D

Lets get straight to the point here Shin.. ;D Are you saying that even before the fall that Adam would have had just cause to be iritated by Eve?
I find this totally unbelievable... Well at least a little unbelievable.... Ok then, I find it totally believable.  ;D

 :rotfl: :rotflblue: :happyroll:

Wait a minute! I didn't say that!

I think he might've said that.. but I purposefully left that part out!

Uhoh.. Methinks I said..  :silent:

 :happyroll:

:rotfl: :happyroll: :happyroll: :rotflblue: :rotflblue: :rotflblue:

Bailey has got to read this conversation. I'm waiting. :P

   :rotflblue:

Ah, let's remember that 'perfect' control is something we must all aim for to the degree it is possible in this life too!  :o  :D  ::)

Worried, Shin? ;D

 :soldier:

 :rotfl: :rotflblue: :happyroll:

I'd be angry at the snake, not poor Eve.  And I'm sure Adam was no peach!   ;D

I think twig and beam is a lame description of anger.  For me, try molton lava and a blown volcano!   ;)

I agree about the snake; and Adam, as usual, put the blame on Eve. ::)

As far as the volcano - maybe St. Augustine was trying to write positively rather than realistically. :shrug:

There seems to be a method hidden somewhere here..

 ;D

This is magnificent!! 

Isn't it? St. Francis de Sales certainly is 'the Gentle Doctor'..

His 'Introduction to the Devout Life' I first encountered with a group of people reading portions of it out loud meeting at the local parish, then each person would comment on what he was inspired by from the passage.

It's a great book for that.  :D

actually that book is on my reading list......... may be a while though....... :D

Hope it's not too long! It's wonderful! :tinyangel:

I need to quote more from 'Mystical Flora' a collection of all his quotes relating the spiritual life to flora and fauna..

'There are some persons who are naturally light and frivolous; others sharp and waspish; others tenacious of their own opinions; others inclined to anger and indignation; in fact, there are very few persons in whom we do not find some kind of imperfections. But though such faults may appear to be natural to each one, yet they may be corrected and moderated, and with great care and by cultivating the opposite virtue we may free ourselves from them altogether. And I tell you, Philothea, that this must be done. Means have been found to change bitter almonds into sweet, merely by piercing the foot of the tree so as to let the juice run out. Why can we not expel our perverse inclinations and so become better ? There is no natural character so good that it cannot be made bad by vicious habits: there is none so froward that it cannot be subdued, first, by the grace of God, then by industry and diligence.'

St. Francis de Sales, 'Introduction to the Devout Life', 'The Mystical Flora'

St. Francis de Sales overcame anger.. and here is his lesson for us eh?

I just read searching the web that another one of his quote, I am not sure where from is:

'There was never an angry man that thought his anger unjust.'

St. Francis de Sales

How are those quotes denying mercy and gentleness? ???

Hmm? I'm confused!

Mercy and gentleness with ourselves when we make a mistake (without disregarding it or fretting).

I don't see any way in which they are!  :D

I don't either. But I read your post as if they were. I must have misread it. :imsorry: again. I think I should go sweep the floors.

I think I should go sweep floors too because I don't even understand Shin's (or St Francis's) post!   ???

Think I'll move on now...  ;D

Oh dear, and am I rather in outer space today too so..

Well let's see..

Vices with opposite virtues.. That's the standard cure.. for beating every vice.. you find the virtue that is its opposite and practice that.. :D

OK Shin, my poor brain can wrap around that one.......  :D

Yes, and while doing that one can certainly be gentle with oneself. The way you treat yourself is, after all, the way you will treat others. Right Bailey?

Another quote I just found, don't know the source:

'Have patience with all things, but, first of all with yourself.'

St. Francis de Sales

 :D

ut-oh :o

Am I wrong? Tell me if I am.

Brigid and Baily  :rot fl: :happyroll:

I'm now confused as to why you're confused.  :D
Is St Francis not simply saying if your prone to anger or any other undesirable trait then try practicing the virtue that opposes it.
Maybe I've read it wrong... Gimme a sweeping brush too.  :-\

I don't read it that way at all. I read it that he is saying that one must be gentle with oneself rather than angry at oneself when we don't do what is wanted by God. This while taking seriously (but not with the pride that comes forth when we are mad at ourselves for failing) the imperfection/sin. Later in that same passage he says that "a fathers gentle, loving rebuke has far greater power to correct a child than rage and passion".

Yes I see now what you mean Brigid.
I found that to be true so often, that when I don't live up to job and get too overcome by disappointment, it works against me rather than for me.. Keeps me focused on me too much.
I'm glad you read it that way.

Martin, you've got just what I meant. Wise gentleman. :irishwisdom: