Saints' Discussion Forums

How do you discern His perfect Will vs. His permissive Will?

Hmm.. 'perfect will'.. now there's a term I don't know the meaning of yet, so you will have to tell me! :D It is great to learn, especially more about Providence.. this may help me a good deal!

It's about time I learned all the definitions and types of will there are! After all my thought on these matters too..  ::)

Generally up till now I just think of His direct will or His indirect (permissive will)..  And I wonder how useful this is.. And if it's a seeming case of weighing which one it is.. I generally as time goes by try to attribute as much to His direct will as possible.. as this seems to me key to 'Trustful Surrender to Divine Providence'..

Umph.. There are a few things which are just plain too difficult to do this with emotionally and otherwise, where things are just plain too awful, and it's hard to say..

Generally I keep reading and rereading the book, "Trustful Surrender to Divine Providence" and as time goes by, become more and more and more, in a steadily increasing process ready to ascribe to His direct will hard and terrible things... punishments of all kinds, and ascribe them as due punishments for my sins in my life.. and that if not for these sins I would bear them better too..
 

Yes, you've guessed right - direct Will equal perfect Will and indirect Will equal permissive Will.

So you're saying that the primary way you discern between the two is via reading the book and practicing; Trustful Surrender to Divine Providence . Also the worse the human punishments or bad things happen, that the most likely it is His direct Will.

What of babies? What of nature? Are those His permissive Will?

Hmm..

I wrote up a post then set it aside.. more thought..


'This thought of yours is perverse: as if the clay should think against the potter, and the work should say to the maker thereof: Thou madest me not: or the thing framed should say to him that fashioned it: Thou understandest not.'

Isaiah 29:16

There was a thread concerning living in the presence of God. Always being aware of His continual presence throughtout the day.
The saint in that quote said that if we can do this we will grow quickly in virtue so I'm guessing that would mean corresponding to His will more and more.

Sometimes wonder if I'm doing Gods will and not my own, even when doing things that to me seem right.


If you give yourself to the practice of holy abandonment, though you may not perceive that you gain at all, you will, in fact, advance greatly, as it is with those who sail upon the sea with favorable winds, trusting wholly to the care of the pilot.

                        St Francis de Sales

Even more food for thought Martin!

Without going into detail, there are many things God may determine and will directly that we may generally and normally not (i.e. unless He intervenes especially to make it clear to us).

People like to take God out of the equation to remove a sense of moral guilt they feel towards certain actions which cause pain, etc. to others. But God's morality is not that morality. He Himself directly orders many things men may not do of their own in the scriptures, including that which is otherwise normally immoral. Sin, in other words, is in the end to do that which is opposed to God's will. Regardless of appearances, whatever God wills is the true and ultimate good.

I'm recalling.. (http://saintsworks.net/forums/index.php?topic=689.0)

More later as I look things up I think and think. A great subject for meditation this, a favorite.. and helpful spiritually.

.


Don't forget the bees, Shin. ;D

You're reminding me there's a little diner I stop off at on the way upstate, and it has these things called 'bee-caps' for sale, some sort of concentrated blend of royal jelly, honey, this that and the other things the bees produce in a pill.

Whoever puts out the ad copy for it did a great job, makes me wonder if the things actually are good for a person's health. However they are rather expensive so I have refrained from the experiment. :D

I am seeing bees everywhere lately! I no longer wonder at seeing them in old church architectural reliefs and altars and etc.!

We need a bee smilie! Hmm, the trial appears to be on hold while the judge was gone. Perhaps we need to introduce some new evidence. :D

At least the wee Irish man is safe. He'd have to be extradited to stand trial.  :irishwisdom:
The other defendants have started a tunnel. :confuzed: :lilangel: :shy: :angryred:

There is no moral guilt within a mother who's just given birth toward her newborn babe. Neither is there moral guilt when humans look on His Creation (unless the person is planning to destroy it  >:( ).

:D

Ah, so much to think about!

But bedtime for me! Tomorrow! Goodnight Brigid!  :D Goodnight Martin!