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Forums => Saints' & Spiritual Life General Discussion => Topic started by: OtherNothing on April 28, 2012, 09:45:52 PM



Title: Russia will spread her errors?
Post by: OtherNothing on April 28, 2012, 09:45:52 PM
Hello, I am new here, so forgive me if this is the wrong place to post. I thought Mary said at Fatima that if people did not pray and return to God that Russia would spread her errors throughout the world. When the Soviet regime crumbled, some seemed to think this was proof that Russia was converted, that the worlds prayers had worked or something.

I am just wondering two things: one, did Mary say that at Fatima? And two, hasn't Russia spread her errors? I don't mean to disparage Russians. I see communism and socialism all over the world. Isn't that what She meant? The whole world didn't used to be socialist. We're in real trouble, aren't we? And politics wont help us, will it? We needed real conversion, but we chose political means, not spiritual means.

Im not the sharpest knife in the drawer, so please, everyone, don't be offended. Im scared.


Title: Re: Russia will spread her errors?
Post by: odhiambo on April 29, 2012, 07:00:25 AM
Hello, I am new here, so forgive me if this is the wrong place to post. I thought Mary said at Fatima that if people did not pray and return to God that Russia would spread her errors throughout the world. When the Soviet regime crumbled, some seemed to think this was proof that Russia was converted, that the worlds prayers had worked or something.

I am just wondering two things: one, did Mary say that at Fatima? And two, hasn't Russia spread her errors? I don't mean to disparage Russians. I see communism and socialism all over the world. Isn't that what She meant? The whole world didn't used to be socialist. We're in real trouble, aren't we? And politics wont help us, will it? We needed real conversion, but we chose political means, not spiritual means.

Im not the sharpest knife in the drawer, so please, everyone, don't be offended. Im scared.

Hi OtherNothing!
 So you are "not the sharpest knife in the drawer" right ?  :)
I love that expression. Neither am I so feel at home  ;D
Yes, the topic world peace and consecrating Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary was briefly mentioned on a thread under Catholic General Discussion Topic: Unity of Western and Eastern Church.
The message of Fatima is clear.  Our Lady advised reciting daily Rosary among others. Where World Peace is concerned she specifically asked for the consecration of Russia to her Immaculate Heart among other devotions.
What many of us are not sure about is whether Our Lady's request has been carried out and Russia consecrated to the Immaculate Heart of Mary, strictly as per her request.


Title: Re: Russia will spread her errors?
Post by: Shin on April 29, 2012, 07:58:41 AM
 :thrones: Welcome to the Saints' Discussion Forums!!  :thrones:

It's great to see you here. I pray you will feel right at home.  ;D

I know Patricia knows a good deal about Fatima, and these matters.

It makes me think of what Rev. Bernard Kunkel had to say about Fatima..

Quote
We're in real trouble, aren't we? And politics wont help us, will it? We needed real conversion, but we chose political means, not spiritual means.

It's true..

I have heard it said there will have to be some sort of chastisement or catastrophe.. justice cannot be assuaged considering how matters are in these times...

But Providence guides all things..

We must trustfully surrender to Him.. It is all for the best. . .


Title: Re: Russia will spread her errors?
Post by: Shin on April 29, 2012, 08:03:45 AM
I hope you have a great time here! There's some fine book studies on going, just started a new short book by Rev. John Joseph Furniss, called 'God Loves Little Children'. The book chapters are posted, and then everyone can comment with any good thoughts that come to mind. :D



Title: Re: Russia will spread her errors?
Post by: OtherNothing on April 29, 2012, 09:00:51 AM
Thank you all for your comments! I followed the thread about unity that was suggested, but now have more questions. Was the error that would spread something other than socialism? Was it just a general non serviam? If the Orthodox Church accepts Vatican I will that help?

I do remember now why people were saying Mary's request was met. Pope Johan Paul II consecrated Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary. About that same time, Gorbachev and Reagan were engaged in the Cold War. I was young then, so I didn't understand any of it, but I thought that was going to save the world from the spread of communism, and that the end of the cold war was evidence of that. Wrong?

I wonder, too, if the conversion just hasn't happened yet, but still might. She didn't give any details, did she?

One more thing: you aren't sure the consecration was done as per her request? Why?



Title: Re: Russia will spread her errors?
Post by: odhiambo on May 02, 2012, 08:19:01 AM
One more thing: you aren't sure the consecration was done as per her request? Why?

Sorry OtherNothing, I had not noted the question till now.
I am not sure because I have read conflicting reports about whether Our Lady of Fatima’s request to consecrate Russia has actually happened.
Some Catholics are of the opinion that Russia has not been consecrated to the Immaculate Heart of Mary as per the request of Our Lady; others on the other hand, hold the opposite opinion.
According to “About Catholicism”
“…in 1984, Pope John Paul II consecrated the Soviet Union. Subsequently, in 1991, the Soviet Union disintegrated into 15 separate countries, but it can hardly be said that Russia has undergone a religious conversion…”
According to Catholicism for Dummies:
“In May 1982, one year after an assassination attempt nearly killed him, Pope John Paul II asked the world’s bishops to join him in consecrating Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary in thanksgiving for saving his life on May 13, 1981. Seven years after the consecration, the Berlin Wall fell, and in 1991, the Soviet Union ceased to exhist….”
Then there are those who claim that the 1984 consecration did not fulfill the Blessed Mother’s request.
The thread I referred you to had a post to that effect.
From EWTN, I learnt that in 1982, Pope John Paul II, performed the Consecration of all Individuals and Peoples of the World to Our Lady of Fatima and that in 1984 he again performed the Consecration of the Modern World to Our Lady of Fátima.
Our Lady asked that Russia be consecrated to her Immaculate Heart.
You can see where opinion varies.



Title: Re: Russia will spread her errors?
Post by: Shin on May 02, 2012, 11:09:41 AM
Some quotes from Fatima, with added emphasis..

'To save them [poor sinners who are on the road to hell], God wishes to establish in the world devotion to My Immaculate Heart. If what I say to you is done, many souls will be saved and there will be peace. The war is going to end; but if people do not cease offending God, a worse war will break out during the reign of Pius XI. When you see a night illumined by an unknown light, know that this is the great sign given you by God that He is about to punish the world for its crimes, by means of war, famine, and persecutions against the Church and against the Holy Father.

To prevent this, I shall come to ask for the consecration of Russia to My Immaculate Heart, and the Communion of Reparation on the First Saturdays. If My requests are heeded, Russia will be converted and there will be peace; if not, she will spread her errors throughout the world, causing wars and persecutions against the Church. The good will be martyred, the Holy Father will have much to suffer, various nations will be annihilated.'

If you read about the history of Fatima, pope after pope did not do the consecration, the people did not cease offending God, and as we see, Communism is everywhere in power, its ideas embraced by people all over the world, and sadly, in positions of official authority in the Church. And sadly, it is not the first time there have been requests from Heaven relayed by a saint and what was requested of St. Peter's successor was not sufficiently heeded. Only later, with a new pontiff, time passes -- the saint is canonized (for example, St. Bridget of Sweden).

For Russia to be converted, well, we can look to past examples similar to Fatima. What happens when there is a divine intervention for conversion of a nation? We can look to South America, and the Aztecs for one example.

After the intervention of Our Lady of Guadalupe (http://www.audiosancto.org/sermon/20060319-Our-Lady-of-Guadalupe.html), nine million Aztecs, converted to Catholicism.

When we pray for people to convert we are praying for them to become good Catholics and save their souls.

Here's Rev. Father Bernard Kunkel's piece.. (http://www.saintsworks.net/Modesty%20and%20Purity%20-%20Rev.%20Father%20Bernard%20Kunkel%20-%20Certain%20Fashions.html)

'In the end, My Immaculate Heart will triumph. The Holy Father will consecrate Russia to Me, and she will be converted, and a period of peace will be granted to the world.'

Deo gratias et Mariae semper Virgini. :D


Title: Re: Russia will spread her errors?
Post by: odhiambo on May 02, 2012, 05:46:05 PM
'In the end, My Immaculate Heart will triumph. The Holy Father will consecrate Russia to Me, and she will be converted, and a period of peace will be granted to the world.'
Reassuring to know that.


Title: Re: Russia will spread her errors?
Post by: Patricia on May 16, 2012, 08:15:47 AM
Even the bluntest knife in the drawer can see that the Consecration of Russia has not been done!  ;D  I'm a blunt knife too and I figured it out. ;D  Unless the Pope says a simple prayer of Consecration with the Catholic Bishops of the world we will not have world peace and Communism will take root everywhere. One can see the effects of Communism in every country today. Abortion was first legalized in Russia now look at how it has spread!! Is widespread abortion and war the peace that comes from Consecration to Our Lady's Immaculate Heart ? I think not.  :(  The Consecration has yet to be done.


Title: Re: Russia will spread her errors?
Post by: odhiambo on May 16, 2012, 08:44:50 AM
-bluntest knife in the drawer -

I have not heard that one before  ;D


Title: Re: Russia will spread her errors?
Post by: martin on May 17, 2012, 04:36:14 PM
Even the bluntest knife in the drawer can see that the Consecration of Russia has not been done!  ;D  I'm a blunt knife too and I figured it out. ;D  Unless the Pope says a simple prayer of Consecration with the Catholic Bishops of the world we will not have world peace and Communism will take root everywhere. One can see the effects of Communism in every country today. Abortion was first legalized in Russia now look at how it has spread!! Is widespread abortion and war the peace that comes from Consecration to Our Lady's Immaculate Heart ? I think not.  :(  The Consecration has yet to be done.

I'm of your opinion Patricia,
In the meantme I think the best we can do as individuals is consecrate ourselves and our homes to the Immaculate Heart of Mary and pray the rosary for peace.