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Forums => Catholic General Discussion => Topic started by: CyrilSebastian on March 18, 2019, 06:39:46 PM



Title: Holy Roman Empire
Post by: CyrilSebastian on March 18, 2019, 06:39:46 PM
                          Lambert (880-898) was the son of Holy Roman Emperor Guy I.   
                           Lambert ruled alongside his father from 892. He and his father signed   
                           a pact with Pope Formosus confirming the Donation of Pepin.


Title: Re: Holy Roman Empire
Post by: CyrilSebastian on March 23, 2019, 05:22:57 PM
                      Holy Roman Emperor Louis II secured the election of Pope Nicholas I in 858.


Title: Re: Holy Roman Empire
Post by: CyrilSebastian on April 11, 2019, 09:03:56 PM
                       Otto I was Holy Roman Emperor from 962 until 973.   
                        He granted the various bishops and abbots of the kingdom   
                        the rank of count as well as the legal rights of counts within their territory.


Title: Re: Holy Roman Empire
Post by: CyrilSebastian on May 02, 2019, 07:50:41 PM
                     Holy Roman Emperor Charles III reigned from 881 to 887.   
                     In 883 Charles signed a treaty with Giovanni II Participazio,   
                     Doge of Venice, granting that any assassin of a doge who     
                     fled to the territory of the Empire would be fined 100 pounds   
                     of gold and banished.


Title: Re: Holy Roman Empire
Post by: CyrilSebastian on June 15, 2019, 07:31:48 PM
                               Holy Roman Emperor Otto I (reigned 962 to 973) transformed the Roman Catholic Church   
                                in Germany to strengthen the royal office and subjected its clergy to his personal control.


Title: Re: Holy Roman Empire
Post by: CyrilSebastian on July 31, 2019, 12:46:41 PM
Leopold I became heir apparent in 1654 by the demise of his elder brother Ferdinand IV.   
Elected in 1658, Leopold became the longest ruling Habsburg emperor (at 46 years and 9 months).


Title: Re: Holy Roman Empire
Post by: CyrilSebastian on August 13, 2019, 09:11:42 PM
Holy Roman Emperor Rudolph II was hesitant to sire a legitimate heir for fear that his son     
would grow up and murder him for his empire. Rudolph never married.


Title: Re: Holy Roman Empire
Post by: CyrilSebastian on August 26, 2019, 09:03:17 PM
The motto of Holy Roman Emperor Ferdinand I was Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.     
"Let justice be done, though the world perish."


Title: Re: Holy Roman Empire
Post by: CyrilSebastian on September 05, 2019, 08:50:35 PM
Henry VII was Holy Roman Emperor from 1312 to 1313.     
He was the first emperor of the House of Luxembourg.


Title: Re: Holy Roman Empire
Post by: CyrilSebastian on September 16, 2019, 08:39:00 PM
In the 15th century the Holy Roman Emperor Frederick III gave the name of Maximilian to his son and eventual heir.


Title: Re: Holy Roman Empire
Post by: CyrilSebastian on September 27, 2019, 08:29:38 PM
With the Onate treaty, Holy Roman Emperor Ferdinand II obtained the support of the Spanish Habsburgs     
 in the succession of his childless cousin Matthias, in exchange for concessions in Alsace and Italy.


Title: Re: Holy Roman Empire
Post by: CyrilSebastian on October 12, 2019, 08:02:05 PM
By 1617, it was apparent that Matthias, Holy Roman Emperor, would die without an heir.   
His lands would go to his nearest male relative, Archduke Ferdinand of Austria.


Title: Re: Holy Roman Empire
Post by: CyrilSebastian on October 21, 2019, 08:40:19 PM
Berengar I was Holy Roman Emperor between 915 and 924. He intervened in an episcopal election   
in the diocese of Liege, outside of the Kingdom of Italy.


Title: Re: Holy Roman Empire
Post by: CyrilSebastian on November 08, 2019, 08:07:26 PM
Conrad II was Holy Roman Emperor from 1027 to 1039. He preferred to appoint   
church bishops over secular lords to important posts across the Empire.


Title: Re: Holy Roman Empire
Post by: CyrilSebastian on December 12, 2019, 07:36:21 PM
Charles IV (1316-1378) was the first King of Bohemia to become Holy Roman Emperor.   
He reigned as Emperor from 1346 to 1378.


Title: Re: Holy Roman Empire
Post by: CyrilSebastian on January 09, 2020, 08:01:43 PM
                      In 1530 Charles V was crowned Holy Roman Emperor by Pope Clement VII in Bologna.   
                                  Charles was the last Emperor to receive a papal coronation.


Title: Re: Holy Roman Empire
Post by: eschator83 on January 17, 2020, 08:54:25 AM
Many thanks for this thread, which has stimulated me to wander in fascination for several hours into my Catholic history and encyclopedia.  I encourage all readers to try a search along the lines of "beginning of the Holy Roman Empire" in your favorite search engine and share your reaction here.  I think you will be amazed, appalled, and saddened at the extent of misinformation, contradiction, and bias.  I am reminded of Jesus' teaching to Nicodemus, Jn 3:19, "...the Light came into the world but (many) people preferred darkness to light, because their works were evil."
I think Bing is much more objective than the other search engines, but sadly it too shows a wide range of dubious assertions.



Title: Re: Holy Roman Empire
Post by: CyrilSebastian on January 17, 2020, 08:30:44 PM
Many thanks for this thread, which has stimulated me to wander in fascination for several hours into my Catholic history and encyclopedia.  I encourage all readers to try a search along the lines of "beginning of the Holy Roman Empire" in your favorite search engine and share your reaction here.  I think you will be amazed, appalled, and saddened at the extent of misinformation, contradiction, and bias.  I am reminded of Jesus' teaching to Nicodemus, Jn 3:19, "...the Light came into the world but (many) people preferred darkness to light, because their works were evil."
I think Bing is much more objective than the other search engines, but sadly it too shows a wide range of dubious assertions.


   
 
eschator83, I am glad that you like this thread about the Holy Roman Empire. The Holy Roman Empire has years of history that can be learned about.


Title: Re: Holy Roman Empire
Post by: eschator83 on January 19, 2020, 11:04:09 AM
My favorite book of Church history (I should admit I don't have very many books) is Joseph McSorley's An Outline History of the Church.  He comments in a note on p 326 that the addition of the adjective Holy to the term Roman Empire appeared for the first time in the reign of Frederick I (c1151-?) and appeared only occasionally for more than a century, becoming customary only in the reign of Charles IV (1347-1378). 
This is an incredible contradiction to most of the several other contradictions that appear in Bing, but seems somewhat reasonable because the dissolution of the brief Carolingian Empire and other misfortunes led McSorley to refer to the 10th century as the darkest age of the Church (and perhaps he meant most of Western civilization).
I'm hoping someone else might comment on other history "versions," and am tempted to write a bit about Bing's version(s) if there is interest.


Title: Re: Holy Roman Empire
Post by: CyrilSebastian on January 19, 2020, 07:34:45 PM
eschator83, Thank you for the information. I did not know about the adjective Holy in connection with the title.


Title: Re: Holy Roman Empire
Post by: eschator83 on January 20, 2020, 04:51:46 PM
Sadly, just because something is titled history doesn't assure it's true.  Richard McBrien states in his book Lives of the Popes p 157 that Leo XII established the Holy Roman Empire in 962 when he crowned Otto I.
One of my least favorite books is Bokenkotter's A Concise History of the Catholic Church.  He doesn't even list the Holy Roman Empire in his index, and I can't find the term anywhere in his book.  But he states on p 89 that a new unity (Christendom) was created in 890 when Pope Leo III crowned  Charlemagne.


Title: Re: Holy Roman Empire
Post by: CyrilSebastian on January 22, 2020, 07:46:59 PM
Charlemagne called himself "Emperor of the Romans".     
Otto I was the first person to call himself "Holy Roman Emperor".     
He was the first person to use the word "Holy" in the title.
       


Title: Re: Holy Roman Empire
Post by: eschator83 on February 01, 2020, 09:07:36 PM
Ironically, McSorley called the 900s the Darkest Age, in part because the Empire of Otto was much smaller than that of Charlemagne, and in just eleven years at Otto's death his empire was broken up, although later to be reconstructed and enlarged.  In contrast, painting history with a somewhat broader brush, Bokenkotter called the period from 600 to 1300 the Making of Christendom.  Who was it that said the devil is in the details?


Title: Re: Holy Roman Empire
Post by: CyrilSebastian on February 07, 2020, 08:15:36 PM
Holy Roman Emperor Otto I used his powers to install other members of his family into other Dukedoms.


Title: Re: Holy Roman Empire
Post by: eschator83 on February 10, 2020, 01:22:17 PM
The wonder, and I think I can say miracle, of the reemergence of the Holy Roman Empire can be appreciated through these words from a Protestant Pastor, but Professor at Notre Dame Univ, Morton Kelsey: "...Western Civilization began to crumble in the sixth century (Barbarian invasions).  Disaster followed disaster, and there was no renewal (like we expect today).  Great cities of several hundred thousand people, like Aquileia, simply ceased to exist.  Hundreds of other cities, from Italy to Britain and from Switzerland to Spain were deserted and remained only piles of rubble, soon totally forgotten...Rome was plundered and finally fell.  Arabs swept away much of the Roman Empire, all of Asia minor and North Africa, and most of Spain.  They gained control of the Mediterranean, and commerce simply disappeared, as did the urban civilization based upon it...the church was the only major institution to survive the chaos."  p201-202 Healing and Christianity.


Title: Re: Holy Roman Empire
Post by: CyrilSebastian on February 10, 2020, 07:21:23 PM
Holy Roman Emperor Joseph II became his mother Maria Theresa's co-regent.     
He took over the handling of the army and foreign affairs.     
Joseph's attempt to exchange part of the Australian Netherlands for Bavaria was underminded by King Frederick II of Prussia.


Title: Re: Holy Roman Empire
Post by: CyrilSebastian on February 27, 2020, 07:54:26 PM
Holy Roman Emperor Ferdinand III reigned from 1637 until 1657. He was a composer.     
Some of his compositions survive in manuscripts: masses, motets, hymns and other sacred music. He composed Drama musicum in 1649.


Title: Re: Holy Roman Empire
Post by: CyrilSebastian on April 14, 2020, 09:01:19 PM
Otto II (955-983) was Holy Roman Emperor from 973 until 983.     
He followed the policy of his father in expanding the importance of the Church in his Empire, in particular the monasteries.


Title: Re: Holy Roman Empire
Post by: CyrilSebastian on April 28, 2020, 09:20:49 PM
Holy Roman Emperor Henry VI wanted to make the imperial crown hereditary.   
He tried to secure the Imperial election of his son Frederick II as King of the Romans.


Title: Re: Holy Roman Empire
Post by: CyrilSebastian on May 22, 2020, 02:51:45 AM
Matthias reigned as Holy Roman Emperor from 1612 to 1619.   
His wife Empress Anna of Tyrol founded the Capuchin Church in Vienna.


Title: Re: Holy Roman Empire
Post by: CyrilSebastian on July 16, 2020, 11:11:45 AM
Henry III was Holy Roman Emperor from 1026 until 1056.   
Henry inaugurated his reign with a tour through his domains.   
In the Low Countries he received homage of Gothelo I, Duke of Upper and Lower Lorraine.


Title: Re: Holy Roman Empire
Post by: CyrilSebastian on August 06, 2020, 10:37:29 AM
Conradin (1252-1268) was the son of Conrad IV of Germany.   
He is sometimes known as Conrad V of Germany. He never succeeded his father in Germany.   
He was recognized as King of the Germans by German supporters of the Hohenstaufens in 1254.


Title: Re: Holy Roman Empire
Post by: CyrilSebastian on September 10, 2020, 12:59:06 PM
Lucas van Valckenborch painted portraits for his patron Holy Roman Emperor Matthias.


Title: Re: Holy Roman Empire
Post by: CyrilSebastian on October 01, 2020, 11:04:20 AM
Holy Roman Emperor Henry III spent Christmas 1041 at Strasbourg. He received emissaries from the Duchy of Burgundy,   
where he travelled at new year and settled administrative and judicial matters.


Title: Re: Holy Roman Empire
Post by: CyrilSebastian on November 12, 2020, 01:20:55 AM
In 1040 Holy Roman Emperor Henry III appointed Suidger von Morsleben bishop of Bamberg.     
Suidger was the future Pope Clement II.


Title: Re: Holy Roman Empire
Post by: CyrilSebastian on November 20, 2020, 12:58:12 AM
Adolph, Count of Nassau was the King of Germany from 1292 until 1298.   
He was never crowned by the Pope, which would have secured him the title of Holy Roman Emperor.


Title: Re: Holy Roman Empire
Post by: CyrilSebastian on December 19, 2020, 08:03:42 PM
In 1046 Pope Clement VI crowned Henry III as Holy Roman Emperor on December 25.


Title: Re: Holy Roman Empire
Post by: CyrilSebastian on February 10, 2021, 04:32:30 PM
The coronation of Guy of Spoleto as Roman Emperor occurred on February 21, 891, together with   
the crowning of his son Lambert II as King of Italy.


Title: Re: Holy Roman Empire
Post by: eschator83 on April 18, 2021, 10:29:29 AM
St Henry II (972-1024) was chosen emperor in 1002 at the death of his cousin Otto III, and crowned Holy Roman Emperor by Pope Benedict VIII, in 1014.  These were very turbulent times in most of the world, but Henry II and III did much to spread faith, justice, and peace.


Title: Re: Holy Roman Empire
Post by: CyrilSebastian on May 03, 2021, 03:33:50 PM
Charlemagne patronized education.   
Along with the secular institutions, he also revived ecumenical (religious) schools.   
Sixteen monasteries and more than 230 cathedrals were either built or renovated during Charlemagne's reign.


Title: Re: Holy Roman Empire
Post by: CyrilSebastian on June 23, 2021, 06:10:45 PM
On February 22, 896 Pope Formosus led King Arnulf into the church of St. Peter, anoited and crowned him as emperor, and saluted him as Augustus.


Title: Re: Holy Roman Empire
Post by: CyrilSebastian on July 23, 2021, 06:23:18 PM
When Maximilian II reigned as Holy Roman Emperor, he allowed the publication of Lutheran liturgy and even had Lutherans at court.
   What did the Pope and the Vatican officials think about this?


Title: Re: Holy Roman Empire
Post by: eschator83 on July 24, 2021, 08:32:18 AM
This is an interesting but obviously very difficult question.  Maximillian II reigned from 1564-1576.  Pius IV served from 1559-1565, succeeded by St Pius V from 1566-1572.  It would be easier to try to search what was done or written or even said rather than what was thought.  I love to search Church issues, but not so much about heresies.  Did you happen to note a particular publication date? 
Here at camp I have few resources, but I vaguely recall reading about a good bit of turmoil when Luther first nailed his list to the Church door.  I hope to work on this question, especially since it is such a paradox that so many Lutherans are leading the way back to the Church.


Title: Re: Holy Roman Empire
Post by: eschator83 on July 24, 2021, 11:16:16 AM
With a little luck, there next appear a link to Britanica:
britannica.com/topic/history-of-Europe/The-Thirty-Years-War#ref310545
By a curious coincidence I found that today's Saint DOC Lawrence was substantially involved in the numerous conflicts throughout the German region and so-called Holy Roman Empire, which was then basically about a thousand quite independent and fractious regional empires.  In 1555 the Augsburg agreement temporarily ended 30 years of war essentially between Lutheran and Catholic coalitions, establishing some free cities allowing both, and other regions exclusively Lutheran or Catholic.   In 1606 Fr Lawrence faced a Lutheran mob, but see if you wish how Brittanica tells the story.


Title: Re: Holy Roman Empire
Post by: CyrilSebastian on July 25, 2021, 06:28:25 PM
With a little luck, there next appear a link to Britanica:
britannica.com/topic/history-of-Europe/The-Thirty-Years-War#ref310545
By a curious coincidence I found that today's Saint DOC Lawrence was substantially involved in the numerous conflicts throughout the German region and so-called Holy Roman Empire, which was then basically about a thousand quite independent and fractious regional empires.  In 1555 the Augsburg agreement temporarily ended 30 years of war essentially between Lutheran and Catholic coalitions, establishing some free cities allowing both, and other regions exclusively Lutheran or Catholic.   In 1606 Fr Lawrence faced a Lutheran mob, but see if you wish how Brittanica tells the story.
   
How does Britannica tell the story?


Title: Re: Holy Roman Empire
Post by: eschator83 on July 27, 2021, 10:52:18 PM
I've gotten off your main comment, which I hope to understand better when I get home to review O'Brien's Lives of the Popes (kind of a nasty book but loaded with interesting data).  Like most of Brittanica, the Augsburg section's tone is very weakly Protestant, mostly agnostic or worse.  Efforts to seek reconciliation between the groups are essentially ignored, and Brittanica seems to enjoy reporting that Calvinists were also damaging both groups.


Title: Re: Holy Roman Empire
Post by: CyrilSebastian on July 29, 2021, 06:22:37 PM
O'Brien's Lives of the Popes sounds interesting.


Title: Re: Holy Roman Empire
Post by: Shin on July 30, 2021, 07:04:24 PM
O'Brien is quite a terrible author to my recollection.


Title: Re: Holy Roman Empire
Post by: eschator83 on July 31, 2021, 09:18:31 AM
As I said, he is nasty, I'll go further and add that he's extensively and excessively critical of the church.  It is hard to imagine why he was allowed to teach at Notre Dame, and why his books are still assigned as texts.  But he has a lot of data which is not otherwise readily available.  I think he's in pretty much the same category as Bokenkotter and Durant.  Durant reportedly converted to Catholicism at the end of his life, but it is hard for me to imagine given his outspoken atheism and apparent communism.  O'Brien is much more clear and readable than the others.


Title: Re: Holy Roman Empire
Post by: CyrilSebastian on July 31, 2021, 05:17:41 PM
eschator83, I have not heard of the authors O'Brien, Bokenkotter and Durant.


Title: Re: Holy Roman Empire
Post by: CyrilSebastian on September 11, 2021, 05:53:14 PM
Henry III was Holy Roman Emperor from 1046 until 1086.   
In 1046 he ended the papal schism and freed the Vatican from dependence on the Roman nobility.