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Forums => Saints' & Spiritual Life General Discussion => Topic started by: Bailey2 on June 04, 2010, 06:51:24 PM



Title: Prayer
Post by: Bailey2 on June 04, 2010, 06:51:24 PM
"Do not fail to apply yourself to whatever inspires the most devotion in you.  The most beneficial prayer will be the one which moves your heart in the most beneficial way." 
Blessed Jordan of Saxony


What kinds of prayer move your heart the most?  I can only hope that some of the other 35 or so members also add to this one.





Title: Re: Prayer
Post by: Patricia on June 04, 2010, 07:07:17 PM
The Passion of Christ and the Sorrows of Mary never cease to move me and inspire devotion. So I like meditating on the Sorrowful mysteries of the Holy Rosary, reading anything regarding the Passion of Our Lord and the Sorrows of Mary, or saying any prayer connected to the Passion. I like praying Litanies very much and different kinds like Litany of the most Precious Blood of Jesus, Litany of the Sacred Heart of Jesus, Litany of the Saints, Litany for the poor Souls in Purgatory etc.


Title: Re: Prayer
Post by: Brigid on June 04, 2010, 09:54:57 PM
I think it depends on me at the time. Even tho' I say the Rosary everyday, sometimes I seem to get a lot out of it, and sometimes not as much (although since Our Lady asked for it, it is special to me). I feel strange and as if something's not right when I haven't said it.
Sometimes 'arrow' prayers (short ejaculations to Him) and sometimes the Jesus Prayer. I suppose saying the Little Office is important to me too, especially in Latin.
Probably the very most important type for me is meditative/contemplative prayer with Lectio Divina. I'd really feel lost without that!


Title: Re: Prayer
Post by: Bailey2 on June 06, 2010, 12:04:46 PM
Sadly, not much inspires devotion in me these days.   :(

But, I think about God all through the day as I "do the day;" say a short prayer on and off  and each morning before dawn read the day's scripture and pray with them. 


Title: Re: Prayer
Post by: Patricia on June 06, 2010, 12:17:26 PM
You could start the family Rosary, Bailey. Will help the whole family with abundant graces. Maybe begin with a decade if its too difficult and slowly move upwards to five decades a day.


Title: Re: Prayer
Post by: martin on June 06, 2010, 02:48:45 PM
I usually start the day by invoking the help of the angels and at least 30 saints but since meeting you all on the forums this list is constantly growing and is now getting outa hand.    :irishwisdom:  Wanted to use that one whether it fits or not  :)

I used to find the rosary so difficult but persevered with it too because of Our Lady’s requests and ended up sticking with the scriptural rosary as the best way to keep focused. It also becomes a kind of Lectio Divina.
I read somewhere that it takes 6 weeks to break a habit and the same to form one.
When it becomes habit or routine it seems to fit into the day without infringing too much on the practical everyday things. No matter how much time we give to those it seems that it’s never enough anyway.

You three ladies are already saints in my book  :littleprayer:


Title: Re: Prayer
Post by: Bailey2 on June 06, 2010, 03:27:44 PM
How anyone can stay focused after dawn is amazing to me.   ???

I have gathered by now that all of you who post pray rosary.  I sure wish one of the other 30 members here would pipe up and give me some comfort to know someone out there does not pray rosary!  I used to years ago.  However, this has changed...... and you'll just have to trust that it's for good reasons spiritually and otherwise.

Anyway, Martinfegan......... so when are you going to start evoking us with the other 30?   :happyroll:



Title: Re: Prayer
Post by: martin on June 06, 2010, 05:22:21 PM
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Anyway, Martinfegan......... so when are you going to start evoking us with the other 30?

Just as soon as I become pope Baily2 the three of you are first for canonisation.  :hospitaltrip:

Not having your open confession option will be a small price to pay for sainthood don’t you think?  :irishwisdom:

Just imagine… the next generation on the saints forum will be reading your’ life stories. :happyroll:

Thanks Shin for the new smilies, There's a chance I might get using them all yet :happywave:


Title: Re: Prayer
Post by: Bailey2 on June 06, 2010, 06:06:06 PM
If you became pope, I would be Catherine of Sienna in your craw!   ;D

But being the way things are......... I shall be canonized without your being pope and with my optional open confession!   ;D

By the way, Martin or Martinfegan?  It just dawned on me that this is your first and last name?  for real?   ???   Boy, you'd never catch me putting my real name on here!!!!!!   :o


Shin, like the new smiles..... but where is the hockey player?  


Title: Re: Prayer
Post by: Patricia on June 06, 2010, 06:30:53 PM
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You three ladies are already saints in my book  littleprayer

Oh Martin, you have not heard me yelling at my kids for half an hour straight!!!!! :gunfight: :madgunfighter: If you only did, you would change your mind in a hurry ;D


Title: Re: Prayer
Post by: Bailey2 on June 06, 2010, 06:41:58 PM
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You three ladies are already saints in my book  littleprayer

Oh Martin, you have not heard me yelling at my kids for half an hour straight!!!!! :gunfight: :madgunfighter: If you only did, you would change your mind in a hurry ;D

Oh Patricia,  you have no idea how many Saints yelled at their kids (before they were Saints, of course).  Have you ever noticed the moms that became Saints lived until after all their children were grown?  ***, I wonder why?  ::) 

My dear Elizabeth Seton called her very short temper one of the, "Seton maladies."   So consider yourself in good company!   


Title: Re: Prayer
Post by: Brigid on June 06, 2010, 09:12:59 PM
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Oh Martin, you have not heard me yelling at my kids for half an hour straight!!!!!   If you only did, you would change your mind in a hurry

Patricia, what parent doesn't. Even God is wrathful in the OT. Besides, He did say not to spare the rod.......

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You three ladies are already saints in my book

Martin, I think you need to send your book for proofreading. :cherubim:


Title: Re: Prayer
Post by: martin on June 07, 2010, 12:39:03 PM
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My dear Elizabeth Seton called her very short temper one of the, "Seton maladies."   So consider yourself in good company!

I never knew much about this saint so I looked her up on the net. What a hard life she had. By the way, is that why you chose the name Baily? Because it was Elizabeth Setons maiden name (Bayley )?
Found out too that her feast day is also our wedding anniversary. That means I may have to add her to my list (Lord what are You doing to me here)?

And where are you pulling all these obscure saints from (IE Blessed Jordan of Saxony)? You wouldn't by any chance be rummaging through the archives looking for saints who didn't say the rosary?   :irishwisdom:

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By the way, Martin or Martinfegan?  It just dawned on me that this is your first and last name?  for real?   Huh?   Boy, you'd never catch me putting my real name on here!!!!!!   Shocked

I figured it would just look like gobbledegook when strung together like that. I obviously underestimated the intelligence of your average American but I'm quite confident yet concerning the average Irishman. (*** hope that didn't sound racist but what am I talking about? sure you can't be racist towards yourself).   :irishwisdom: Forgive me for using the wee pipe smoking man a lot. He's the bee's knee's.    :rotfl:

Patricia shouting at the kids doesn't demote you that easily. I agree with Baily2 and Brigid and the Good Lord hasn't finished with you yet. Don't forget me when you collect your halo. You too Baily2! You too Brigid!   :littleprayer:

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Martin, I think you need to send your book for proofreading. cherubim

I've already sent it off to Shin and he's negotiating a deal with Tan Books.    :thumbsup:





Title: Re: Prayer
Post by: Patricia on June 07, 2010, 12:53:39 PM
 :happyroll: :rotflblue: :rotfl:

You seem to be in a good mood Martinfegan, you made me laugh and laugh.

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Patricia shouting at the kids doesn't demote you that easily. I agree with Baily2 and Brigid and the Good Lord hasn't finished with you yet. Don't forget me when you collect your halo. You too Baily2! You too Brigid!   littleprayer

You don't know me well at all, Martin. :biggrin: Only God knows my wicked side. :speachless: 


Title: Re: Prayer
Post by: martin on June 07, 2010, 01:26:56 PM
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You seem to be in a good mood Martinfegan, you made me laugh and laugh.

Yes Patricia... That rare phenomena that occurs in Ireland a few times per year has that effect on a lot of us here.
I mean of course the sun shining.    :flower:


Title: Re: Prayer
Post by: Bailey2 on June 07, 2010, 02:37:57 PM
Patricia,  love the new avatar......... ***, if you all keep changing your avatars, I won't recognize you!

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I never knew much about this saint so I looked her up on the net. What a hard life she had. By the way, is that why you chose the name Baily? Because it was Elizabeth Setons maiden name (Bayley )?

Bailey is the name of my golden retriever.  I am Bailey2.   I had been training her to be a therapy dog but because of my lack of time, we abandoned this.  So in essence, Bailey is very very obedient on a leash.  However, when you let her loose she will only obey if she doesn't see a rabbit to chase or worse, finds carrion to eat.  Once, she ran to say hello to a coyote and that was quite the scare.  We have to totally keep her on the leash this time of year because of rattle snakes....... you of course are unfamiliar with them!  Anyway, Bailey is utmost faithful and docile but has a mischievous side that needs to be watched or it will surely get into trouble before she comes running home.  My relationship with her is a metaphor for my relationship with God.

I have two of the three volumes of Elizabeth Seton's letters; plus two books by Dirvin and two retreat books on her.  I ran a 6 week prayer course at my old parish some years ago and had the good fortune of going to Emmitsberg.  There, an old nun was so impressed with my knowledge of her that she snuck me across the ropes to kneel where she knelt for communion and hold onto the banister where she leaned as she made her way up the stairs.  She also let me take a forbidden picture of the bed she died on and the painting she brought to America from the Filichi house in Italy. 
I was taught by the sisters of charity in NYC and that is probably why my affinity for her; that and that she had two impossible sons.  Of late however, I have been most attracted to a mentor of Elizabeth's, St. Jane Francis de Chantal....... probably because this Saint doubted the existence of God, Jesus, and the afterlife for her entire life to her death......... but maintained her faith.  St. Vincent de Paul said of her that she was the holiest woman he had ever met ( I have that quote too  :)).  Considering my state of affairs re: prayer, doubt, etc. I find her most encouraging at this point in my life as I proceed.........

As for the obscure Saints, you know, we liberals have to pretend we are knowledgeable.  So, we purchase books like The Wisdom of the Saints, which is a volume of quotes.  Oh dear, now I have given the secret away and Shin will surely find the book and post all the quotes on the quote section! 


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I obviously underestimated the intelligence of your average American but I'm quite confident yet concerning the average Irishman. (*** hope that didn't sound racist but what am I talking about? sure you can't be racist towards yourself).   irishwisdom Forgive me for using the wee pipe smoking man a lot. He's the bee's knee's.    rotfl

My maternal grandmother was born in Mohill, County Leitrim.  Visited there when I was thirteen.  So, I can put up with your blarney but I long put down the shillelagh as a means of punishment.   ;D


Title: Re: Prayer
Post by: martin on June 07, 2010, 03:03:10 PM
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As for the obscure Saints, you know, we liberals have to pretend we are knowledgeable.  So, we purchase books like The Wisdom of the Saints, which is a volume of quotes.  Oh dear, now I have given the secret away and Shin will surely find the book and post all the quotes on the quote section!
   :rotfl: :rotfl: :happyroll: :happyroll:

Baily2 those golden retrievers are beautiful dogs. A friend of mine has one and sometimes if he see's me out he'll come dandering up (he's a bit over weight) and just stand wagging his tail waiting to get patted and made a fuss of.

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I have two of the three volumes of Elizabeth Seton's letters;

Will you post some of these (that's if you have any stored on your computer) cause sometimes the letters are a great way of getting a feel for the saint.

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I have been most attracted to a mentor of Elizabeth's, St. Jane Francis de Chantal....... probably because this Saint doubted the existence of God, Jesus, and the afterlife for her entire life to her death..

Was thinking about our dear friend Maryslittleflower while reading that.. It's a powerful consolation at times to know that the saints too had terrible trials of faith.

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My maternal grandmother was born in Mohill, County Leitrim.  Visited there when I was thirteen.  So, I can put up with your blarney but I long put down the shillelagh as a means of punishment.   Grin

How did I know there was a bit of Irish blood there?   :irishwisdom:


Title: Re: Prayer
Post by: Brigid on June 07, 2010, 03:13:35 PM
I liked that St. Seton was Episcopalian before she converted. Tell me though, did she yell at her boys? What of St. Jane de Chantal? Did she yell at her brood? Did St. Vincent de Paul talk of her holiness while her kids were still living with her or after? ;D It seems to me that yelling at your kids may  even be a sign of holiness. It shows that you care about what they do.

In my limited experience, if devotion is equated with feeling, then an awful lot of people don't have any devotion (including many Saints). Also, when people have demanding children (or spouses), there isn't as much alone time to pray in the fashion that those people might wish (excluding those who are able to rise before dawn ::) ). In that circumstance, "arrow" prayers or partial Rosaries are a good way to pray, at least for the time being. So Bailey, you don't have to feel left out. I'm sure you do something like those. And you can be sure to join Martin's list  ;D .


Title: Re: Prayer
Post by: martin on June 07, 2010, 03:21:36 PM
PS....Talking of obscure saints, did any of you ever hear of Blessed Keteri Tekakwitha.
She was a native American Mowhawk who was made Blessed by JPII. She happens to be on my invoking list for the soul reason that my dear dad used to keep a picture and prayer of her in his wallet.


Title: Re: Prayer
Post by: martin on June 07, 2010, 03:24:23 PM
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It seems to me that yelling at your kids may  even be a sign of holiness.

Brigid that just sounded so so funny  :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :happyroll: :happyroll:


Title: Re: Prayer
Post by: Bailey2 on June 07, 2010, 03:32:06 PM
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In my limited experience, if devotion is equated with feeling, then an awful lot of people don't have any devotion (including many Saints). Also, when people have demanding children (or spouses), there isn't as much alone time to pray in the fashion that those people might wish (excluding those who are able to rise before dawn Roll Eyes ). In that circumstance, "arrow" prayers or partial Rosaries are a good way to pray, at least for the time being. So Bailey, you don't have to feel left out. I'm sure you do something like those. And you can be sure to join Martin's list  Grin .
OK Brigid, I'll take Sainthood!   :D

For Mothers:  
"My little Daughter is the object of all others which I most fear to present to you, tho' I dare say she is the one you most wish to see, she possesses from her Mother a most ungovernable temper and with all my endeavours is past all management  My William (husband) leaves her to me, My Father tells me, conquer her by gentleness. Post and my Sister recommends Wipping, which is to me an unnatural resource, and the last I shall have recourse to--- send me a word of advice on this subject, or rather make hast to set me right, and assist me in a case which demands more resolution, than any situation I have hitherto experienced"   elizabeth seton to Eliza Sadler; from Long Island, 1797   :)
(guess she wasn't a Saint yet  ;))

And for Maryslittleflower:  "She was full of faith, and yet all her life long had been tormented by thoughts against it..... But for all that suffering her face never lost its serenity, nor did she once relax in fidelity God asked of her.  And so I regard her as one of the holiest souls I have ever met on earth."  St. Vincent de Paul about St Jane Francis de Chantal.


Title: Re: Prayer
Post by: martin on June 07, 2010, 03:50:58 PM
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And for Maryslittleflower:  "She was full of faith, and yet all her life long had been tormented by thoughts against it..... But for all that suffering her face never lost its serenity, nor did she once relax in fidelity God asked of her.  And so I regard her as one of the holiest souls I have ever met on earth."  St. Vincent de Paul about St Jane Francis de Chantal.

That is so moving... Thank you Baily2.

I once asked a very saintly priest (now deceased God Bless his soul) to pray for a woman who had asked for prayers and he said to me that any woman who bears a child and endevours to bring that child up in the faith is already sanctified and he said so this woman who I will pray for is thrice sanctified. (She had 3 kids)

That's why I say you ladiies are already saints so all you have to do now is..Well.....Just act like one.  :irishwisdom:


Title: Re: Prayer
Post by: Brigid on June 07, 2010, 04:01:27 PM
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I once asked a very saintly priest (now deceased God Bless his soul) to pray for a woman who had asked for prayers and he said to me that any woman who bears a child and endevours to bring that child up in the faith is already sanctified and he said so this woman who I will pray for is thrice sanctified. (She had 3 kids)

Our Lord, in Genesis seems to think that "bringing forth children" (bearing and bringing up children) will return women to the state of sanctity they were in before the Fall.


Title: Re: Prayer
Post by: Bailey2 on June 07, 2010, 04:06:06 PM
I presume because of the suffering of childbirth or the 18 LONG years!!   ;D
I suspect the former is no longer sanctifying in western societies due to epidurals.  However, I think the following 18 yrs makes up for it these days!   :sweatdrop:


Title: Re: Prayer
Post by: martin on June 07, 2010, 04:08:37 PM
Brigid I didn't know if that priest had any theological grounds to base his statement on but he was such a holy man that I just believed him. Now you have answered it.


Title: Re: Prayer
Post by: Patricia on June 07, 2010, 04:16:54 PM
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Our Lord, in Genesis seems to think that "bringing forth children" (bearing and bringing up children) will return women to the state of sanctity they were in before the Fall.

I wish. When my children are misbehaving or going in the wrong direction,  I feel terribly guilty as I feel that I am responsible for their actions since I am responsible for their upbringing.  So if they are not behaving well or being good or being holy I feel I have gone wrong as a mother somewhere. Its not that I'm paranoid about their behaviour, its only when they seem to go the wrong way  away from God.


Title: Re: Prayer
Post by: Brigid on June 07, 2010, 04:23:27 PM
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I wish. When my children are misbehaving or going in the wrong direction,  I feel terribly guilty as I feel that I am responsible for their actions since I am responsible for their upbringing.  So if they are not behaving well or being good or being holy I feel I have gone wrong as a mother somewhere. Its not that I'm paranoid about their behaviour, its only when they seem to go the wrong way  away from God.


Maybe that feeling is sanctifying, too. He must feel that way. And the anxiety we feel when they are out on their own and no longer listening to their parents is certainly sanctifying. Look at St. Monica!


Title: Re: Prayer
Post by: Patricia on June 07, 2010, 04:34:43 PM
Hope the final outcome is that of St. Monica. Conversion of the children is the best blessing one could see in a lifetime. :cherubim:


Title: Re: Prayer
Post by: Patricia on December 15, 2010, 09:06:09 AM
Has anyone experienced this?  You pray a lot for something and quite the opposite keeps happening.. It is as if your prayers were coming to naught, or as if your prayers were causing mishaps to happen.  It has happened to me before. I'm posting this because I was talking to my friend yesterday ( the one who needs prayers for a job etc ) and she told me that the day she prays earnestly, says her Rosary or prays to Our Lady , that is the day more problems are caused.  I told her , according to my reasoning, that the devil does not want prayer and thus causes obstacles in order for her to stop praying.  I told her no matter what,  to persevere in prayer and not to give up. I'm worried that she may stop praying because of discouragement.


Title: Re: Prayer
Post by: Jacki on December 15, 2010, 12:46:28 PM
I am not much of a prayer person (I am the prime example of A.D.D) but reading Louis Granda's Sinner Guide ( I try to read a chapter a day) ALWAYS inspires me...it was even one of the reasons I came back to grace with God as I found the book and instantly came back to God after being dormat for years.
Also,helping people or giving gifts in Jesus's name always makes me feel so close with God.

But if I do pray, I usually offer up my prayers and ask Mother Mary and the Arch Angels and a few saints to pray for me and I always imagine holding up my small and impure heart to Jesus. God is my father and he knows his daughter well and I know he will never abandon me. For He is mine and I am His.


Title: Re: Prayer
Post by: Bailey2 on December 15, 2010, 12:47:52 PM
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Has anyone experienced this?  You pray a lot for something and quite the opposite keeps happening.. It is as if your prayers were coming to naught, or as if your prayers were causing mishaps to happen.  It has happened to me before. I'm posting this because I was talking to my friend yesterday ( the one who needs prayers for a job etc ) and she told me that the day she prays earnestly, says her Rosary or prays to Our Lady , that is the day more problems are caused.  I told her , according to my reasoning, that the devil does not want prayer and thus causes obstacles in order for her to stop praying.  I told her no matter what,  to persevere in prayer and not to give up. I'm worried that she may stop praying because of discouragement.

Knowing my need for proper sleep in order to keep emotionally even, when I was pregnant with our first child I prayed for a baby that would sleep, meaning I could deal with the usual 6 weeks or so of frequent wakings but then a tapering off because the help would be gone.  I received a baby who almost died at birth, then had unbearable colic, then at 6 weeks got his first ear infection, then had surgery at 9 mo and 2 yrs., and then had night terrors until he was about 11.  My moods deteriorated.  My health deteriorated.  It was a tough 11 years, especially when the second came 2.5 yrs later who slept but was hyperactive (truly hyperactive-- and out of a crib and playpen by 16 mo--climbed out).  We had no family support.
The hyperactive one is the hockey player.  The oldest still isn't the best sleeper.  But now I get to sleep!  :P

I had to come to a place where I accepted that life dishes out what it dishes out and God holds my hand through it.  But that came after a lot of fist shaking and a mistaken notion that He was punishing me or purging me (by not letting me have sleep and so let my health deteriorate, thus affecting the children)--sorry can't believe God does those things, as you all know.

So my advice to her is pray, ask, yell, be mad, thank for little favors as they happen, do the best you can, know you are not the only one (that helped in my situation anyway), and know He is there with you.


Title: Re: Prayer
Post by: Jacki on December 15, 2010, 12:57:07 PM
I'm worried that she may stop praying because of discouragement.

If she stops praying the devil wins. You are right, the devil will do anything to stop prayers.
My mother says the trials from this prayer are more beneficial than the thing she is asking for in itself as God is allowing this happen and he is always with her, and like you said, he is giving her strength.

I remember reading in Sinner's Guide about a saint who was tortured so bad that his bones were exposed and the torturer put vingear and salt on them and he still didn't die, then they roasted him till his spirit parted and I told my mother this just crying. I asked my mom how could anyone do this to someone. And she said:
Someone people will be in closer union and more one with God when they die, do not pity them. God was with them during all of their tortues or no human could withstand what they went through alone.


So I hope your friend remembers that when she is suffering, God is always with her to give her any grace she needs.

Sometimes you need to lose something in order to gain another...as every loss is a gain.


Title: Re: Prayer
Post by: Patricia on December 15, 2010, 02:22:30 PM
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Sometimes you need to lose something in order to gain another...as every loss is a gain.

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I had to come to a place where I accepted that life dishes out what it dishes out and God holds my hand through it.


Your experiences are encouraging to me and I will pass on this encouragement to my friend.   :) 




Title: Re: Prayer
Post by: martin on December 16, 2010, 10:59:59 AM
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I had to come to a place where I accepted that life dishes out what it dishes out and God holds my hand through it.  But that came after a lot of fist shaking and a mistaken notion that He was punishing me or purging me (by not letting me have sleep and so let my health deteriorate, thus affecting the children)--sorry can't believe God does those things, as you all know.

Hello Baily. Me again.  ;D

I do know you have a dislike for words such as  punish and purge. I mostly prefer the word "Chastise" rather than "punish" as I read once that the word "Chastise" is from the word "Chasten" which means to make clean or purify. So it seems what God is doing by allowing certain circumstances to come about or persist, is solely for our good because He loves us enogh to clean us up a bit. I think we use the word "punish" because from our perspective that's what we experience it as.  On God's part though, it must be an act of love in the same way that we chastise our little ones for their good even though they too perceive it as punishment.

Purging.  Now I do like that word. Reminds me of the refiners fire. The Silversmith producing pure silver from the furnace after burning away all the dross and impurities. So if God does indeed see all our troubles and even permits them, but, like you say,  holds our hand through them, then I would indeed call what is taking place, "a purging"  of sorts. If these things weren't purging us then why would God who loves us ever permit them in the first place? If they really all where just happening by chance and God was merely a bystander with no control over these events other than to console us through them, then that would place those events outside His omnipotence and we, poor things, would be at the mercy of chance rather than at the mercy of God.

I find great consolation in the fact that God is permitting every single event in my life for the sole purpose of purging me and making me better than I was before I received the purging. And I'll even call it punishment for the joy of knowing that He cares enough about me to punish me.  :D

How did that come across my dear sister Baily?  :-\   
I hope if I've said this just to be contrary, that the Lord will purge me of this defect. :swordfight:
Nah.... I don't think I did, cause I didn't even put on me boxing gloves.  :boxing:  :D




Title: Re: Prayer
Post by: RachelKH on December 16, 2010, 12:09:51 PM
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I find great consolation in the fact that God is permitting every single event in my life for the sole purpose of purging me and making me better than I was before I received the purging. And I'll even call it punishment for the joy of knowing that He cares enough about me to punish me.

I am printing this out to read every day, Martin.  Such wisdom, such peace.

I had to replace my black ink cartridge I've been printing out so much I'm gleaning from this site!


Title: Re: Prayer
Post by: Shin on December 16, 2010, 01:06:35 PM
'He who prays with understanding patiently accepts circumstances, whereas he who resents them has not yet attained pure prayer.'

St. Mark the Ascetic

A quote that just popped up from Saints' Quotes. (http://www.saintsquotes.net)

So much heart moving said here!  :pathead:


Title: Re: Prayer
Post by: Bailey2 on December 16, 2010, 03:23:01 PM

Hello Baily. Me again.  ;D

I do know you have a dislike for words such as  punish and purge. I mostly prefer the word "Chastise" rather than "punish" as I read once that the word "Chastise" is from the word "Chasten" which means to make clean or purify. So it seems what God is doing by allowing certain circumstances to come about or persist, is solely for our good because He loves us enogh to clean us up a bit. I think we use the word "punish" because from our perspective that's what we experience it as.  On God's part though, it must be an act of love in the same way that we chastise our little ones for their good even though they too perceive it as punishment.

Purging.  Now I do like that word. Reminds me of the refiners fire. The Silversmith producing pure silver from the furnace after burning away all the dross and impurities. So if God does indeed see all our troubles and even permits them, but, like you say,  holds our hand through them, then I would indeed call what is taking place, "a purging"  of sorts. If these things weren't purging us then why would God who loves us ever permit them in the first place? If they really all where just happening by chance and God was merely a bystander with no control over these events other than to console us through them, then that would place those events outside His omnipotence and we, poor things, would be at the mercy of chance rather than at the mercy of God.

I find great consolation in the fact that God is permitting every single event in my life for the sole purpose of purging me and making me better than I was before I received the purging. And I'll even call it punishment for the joy of knowing that He cares enough about me to punish me.  :D

How did that come across my dear sister Baily?  :-\   
I hope if I've said this just to be contrary, that the Lord will purge me of this defect. :swordfight:
Nah.... I don't think I did, cause I didn't even put on me boxing gloves.  :boxing:  :D


Hi brother Martin!    ;D
First, I have no problem at all believing life simply dishes out, by random chance, adversity as well as blessings.  The world is incomplete and permeated by sin and also blessing.  I think God, by virtue of his promise (not ineptitude) must uphold free will and also honor the things he created.  "He saw that they were good (Genesis),"  not "He saw that they needed tweaking from time to time to effect a purpose."  I just don't see God as a master manipulator.  I think that is a bit deterministic.  Dark nights being the exception of course because that is a matter of relationship with a real Person, who can come and go as He pleases.

Second, I think we need to cooperate in developing an attitude of holiness, which means a purging of our attachments.  We can use these random events to cooperate with that or reject that opportunity.  I really don't think God hands them to us.  I don't think God gives us only what we can endure.  Some people break under what they have to endure and to believe that one blames the victim for not being strong enough in their faith rather than they broke because no one should have to endure so much.  I don't think God says, "Ah-ha, this is for your own good."  I know that flys in the face of some of the cherished beliefs here...... but I can reconcile a random series of events caused by acts of nature or other people's (or mine) sinfulness faster than I can reconcile a God of manipulation.

Third, I think the concept of chastisement is an ancient one designed to explain and "control" things that weren't understood at the time.  The concept came long before the Old Testament was written and stayed long after the New Testament was written.  I think our concept of a God with a "rod and staff" to beat (chastise) us into submission is simply that, our conceptualization (one I don't have obviously).  God is the God of no name, the One not seen, the One who is mystery.  I just don't see Him as big daddy.  I see Him as awe.

OK, now that I've gotten everyone all riled up.  Go for it!   :boxing:    ;D


Title: Re: Prayer
Post by: Patricia on December 16, 2010, 03:25:33 PM
Get the popcorn. It is on. :o :D


Title: Re: Prayer
Post by: Bailey2 on December 16, 2010, 03:35:32 PM
 :happyroll: :happyroll: :happyroll: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotflblue: :rotflblue: :rotflblue:



Title: Re: Prayer
Post by: martin on December 17, 2010, 02:47:31 PM
Get the popcorn. It is on. :o :D

 :happyroll: :happyroll: :happyroll: :happyroll: :happyroll:

Patricia when I can stop laughing I'll be able to think straight.  :D

It's not fair though. Baily and me can't eat popcorn with these boxing gloves on.  :D  :boxing:


Title: Re: Prayer
Post by: Shin on December 17, 2010, 02:58:47 PM
Get the popcorn. It is on. :o :D

 :happyroll: :happyroll: :happyroll: :happyroll: :happyroll:

Patricia when I can stop laughing I'll be able to think straight.  :D

It's not fair though. Baily and me can't eat popcorn with these boxing gloves on.  :D  :boxing:

I love boxing gloves.. It's such a pleasure to be able to hit something without hurting your hand. :D Even if it's harder to eat!


Title: Re: Prayer
Post by: Bailey2 on December 17, 2010, 04:43:57 PM
I'm still laughing!   :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotflblue: :rotflblue: :happyroll: :happyroll: :rotflblue: :rotflblue: :rotfl: :rotfl:


Title: Re: Prayer
Post by: odhiambo on June 05, 2012, 06:17:49 AM
Is there a technique to prayers? like how to empty oneself completely of trivials and concentrate on God who is within us?


Title: Re: Prayer
Post by: Patricia on June 06, 2012, 08:56:45 AM
I'd like an answer to that since it seems to be a common problem. The Rosary helps with that since it is a mental and vocal prayer and minimizes distraction. Gazing at a picture of Jesus or Mary while praying should help . To keep the senses occupied with spiritual things and give no way to trivial thinking is the trick. Any suggestions? ???


Title: Re: Prayer
Post by: odhiambo on June 08, 2012, 03:34:10 AM
'It is said that the highest state of prayer is reached when the intellect goes beyond the flesh and the World, and while praying is utterly free from matter and form. He who maintains this state has truly attained unceasing prayer.'

St. Maximos the Confessor


Title: Re: Prayer
Post by: Shin on June 09, 2012, 01:52:43 AM
Is there a technique to prayers? like how to empty oneself completely of trivials and concentrate on God who is within us?

I wish I could advise. But in this I have to sit still and learn.

All I can say is at least, pray to learn to pray better, and be thankful for what one has.


Title: Re: Prayer
Post by: odhiambo on June 09, 2012, 06:16:38 AM
Is there a technique to prayers? like how to empty oneself completely of trivials and concentrate on God who is within us?

I wish I could advise. But in this I have to sit still and learn.

All I can say is at least, pray to learn to pray better, and be thankful for what one has.

I will heed that advice Shin.