Quotes: True Peace of God

[Shin]

I like that quotation a good deal.

I do know that being stuck with troublesome people can be a great benefit handled properly.

'A lady wishing to have a widow live with her to take care of, asked St. Athanasius to find her one among his poor. Afterwards meeting the Bishop, she reproached him that he had treated her ill, because this person was too good, and gave her nothing to do by which she could gain heaven; and she begged him to give her another. The saint chose the worst he could find; of a cross, grumbling temper, never satisfied with what was done for her. This is the way we must act, for there is no great merit in doing good to one who values it, who thanks us and is grateful.'

St. Jean Marie Baptiste Vianney, the Cure of Ars

In other words, and I have heard this particular example used by more than one saint -- to gain merit, and practice virtue, these people are indispensable. Without them, certainly, we are at peace -- but why? Because of interior grace and rulership over our selves? No, because of exterior circumstances, that if changed and we are put to the test in, we fail because of no true ability to keep our peace.

The saints are jealous of Heavenly treasure, they desire as much as they can gain. And so, while they bear with these cross people they see in their minds the piles of gold coins flowing forth in the clouds, so to speak. Only the gold is the grace of virtue practiced and giving glory to God.

St. Jean Marie Vianney himself is an example of this, in his relationship with his housekeeper, whom testified that he never gave her a human reason for helping him -- in other words, he did not reward her in this life. For weak children, this would have caused these people to despise him or dislike him, but for her, she gained treasure in Heaven by serving a saint who did not reward her on earth.

But we are very far from these things, because we are far from Christianity in so many ways. We do not pursue crosses and take joy in them and trust in the rewards for a variety of reasons.

[Shin]

There's a sermon on this list entitled 'The Holy Family' that talks about how to gain interior peace as part of the discussion.

It focuses on the idea of 'peace as the tranquility of order'.

Very key I think! 

[Shin]

A further quote from St. Augustine:

'The peace of the celestial city is the perfectly ordered and harmonious enjoyment of God, and of one another in God. The peace of all things is the tranquillity of order.

Order is the distribution which allots things equal and unequal, each to its own place.

And hence, though the miserable, in so far as they are such, do certainly not enjoy peace, but are severed from that tranquillity of order in which there is no disturbance, nevertheless, inasmuch as they are deservedly and justly miserable, they are by their very misery connected with order.

They are not, indeed, conjoined with the blessed, but they are disjoined from them by the law of order. And though they are disquieted, their circumstances are notwithstanding adjusted to them, and consequently they have some tranquillity of order, and therefore some peace. But they are wretched because, although not wholly miserable, they are not in that place where any mixture of misery is impossible.

They would, however, be more wretched if they had not that peace which arises from being in harmony with the natural order of things. When they suffer, their peace is in so far disturbed; but their peace continues in so far as they do not suffer, and in so far as their nature continues to exist. As, then, there may be life without pain, while there cannot be pain without some kind of life, so there may be peace without war, but there cannot be war without some kind of peace, because war supposes the existence of some natures to wage it, and these natures cannot exist without peace of one kind or other.'

St. Augustine

This is a deep quote which I connect to something I heard of once, though since I do not know exactly where I can only relate the story from faulty memory -- where a saint perhaps attempted to take a soul in the fires of Hell to Heaven and God allowed it to be brought up there -- the saint thought that if she took a soul in Hell to Heaven it would be better off there.

But the soul upon being brought up into the Heavens, when it was there made great complaint, and desired to return to Hell. True it did not bear its tortures -- but precisely because of this, and more, it was all the worse -- justice was not being done. It expressed itself that at least with it being in Hell the universe made sense, it could not bear within itself the torment of the disorder of its dislocation from its proper place -- a senseless universe.

If I ever find the actual story I will look into the actual details, however what is striking is this illustrates all the more of how important that everything be ordered for peace. With proper order -- peace, without, not. All temporary peace is thus an appearance of order that is not actual. I.e. we receive certain sensory comforts, or mental comforts, but the fundamentals are being overlooked.

How dangerous a false peace is!

Which reminds me of the souls in purgatory and how if ever a soul witnesses purgatory before its life is over, it performs tremendous acts of penance for the rest of its life. Penance repairs disorder. But moreso.. the souls who witness the next life have such inexpressible pain at not being united to God.

We, 'see through a glass darkly', but if we 'saw clearly' we would too feel this inexpressible pain at the disorder of our current existence of being separated from God. It would be greater than any pain in this life, by magnitudes beyond expression -- in fact it is an infinite kind of pain, the loss of God, separation from Him.

This would be the true state of our souls if we understood ourselves now, if we 'saw clearly'. We do not yet feel it, but we can move ourselves to act upon this knowledge.

So -- rationality, converting because of what we 'know' is so key towards change because our hearts can be deceived by a 'false peace' in the emotional life, but so too, conversion of heart changes this false peace into a more proper desire, a properly ordered emotion for God that enables us to fulfill His will and more and more greatly order our lives.

[Bailey2]

The recollection of an injury is itself wrong. It adds to our anger, nurtures our sins and hates what is good. It is a rusty arrow and poison for the soul. It puts all virtue to flight.

This never occurred to me. It should have but it didn't.

I totally missed this the first time!  Thank you Shin for posting this and you Brigid for highlighting it!  I'm going to use this in another place re: depressive tendencies!!
 

[Patricia]

If the hurt is emotional and not physical, try to figure out where that person is coming from: is he/she hurt, lonely, raised to be that way, doesn't know better, etc.  The focus on that person rather than what it does to you.

Bailey, one has to be very generous and large hearted to do that. To try to empathize even when it is difficult.  It is a grace one should pray for.

[Shin]

If the hurt is emotional and not physical, try to figure out where that person is coming from: is he/she hurt, lonely, raised to be that way, doesn't know better, etc.  The focus on that person rather than what it does to you.

Bailey, one has to be very generous and large hearted to do that. To try to empathize even when it is difficult.  It is a grace one should pray for.

Yes, with God's help this grace is possible!   St. Joseph of Copertino had troubles with his temper, but with God grace delivers!

Unlike many other places, bringing back old threads if there is something new to contribute is a good thing here. We encourage it! Months, years later we may find God gives us a new insight, draw new benefit, have a new question.. threads may become like little booklets full of little treasures because of the different graces and inspirations each person finds woven together..

On other places oriented on conflict often threads become cyclic debates where nothing new is said or learned.. but here the goal is to find new goods.. and support the goods found..   

Deo gratias et Mariae semper Virgini!

[Shin]

The recollection of an injury is itself wrong. It adds to our anger, nurtures our sins and hates what is good. It is a rusty arrow and poison for the soul. It puts all virtue to flight.

This never occurred to me. It should have but it didn't.

I totally missed this the first time!  Thank you Shin for posting this and you Brigid for highlighting it!  I'm going to use this in another place re: depressive tendencies!!
 

Yes sometimes forgetfulness is a blessing! (sometimes it's a curse!) And sometimes we have to change the emotions associated with the memories. . both methods are so helpful!

[martin]

But the soul upon being brought up into the Heavens, when it was there made great complaint, and desired to return to Hell. True it did not bear its tortures -- but precisely because of this, and more, it was all the worse -- justice was not being done. It expressed itself that at least with it being in Hell the universe made sense, it could not bear within itself the torment of the disorder of its dislocation from its proper place -- a senseless universe.

How often I've heard people say that they can't believe in a God who would consign people to hell.
The above quote answers that question well.
Other saints have said that those who go to hell choose to go there.

Regarding hurtful memories and problems with forgiving (earlier in this thread) I believe that both come from a non-appreciation of ones own sinfulness.
In order not to forgive or hold grudges against someone I must detach myself from my own culpability regarding the torture and death of our dear Lord.
No matter how much anyone has hurt me they can't have hurt me more than I myself have hurt and abused my Lord.

This is an indisputable truth that grants no licence whatsoever to hold grudges or refuse forgiveness to anyone. When tempted to do so, 5 minutes of meditating on the passion of Christ should bring my own petty grievances into perspective.. If I find myself so hard hearted that even this fails to bring me to my senses then picturing Jesus lying dead in the arms of His adorable mother and the unspeakable sorrow on her face all because of me and my sins, this usually softens the heart enough to cease the complaining and forgive the offence.
Like the thief on the cross, I'm only getting what's due to me when I receive offence, but our dear Lord has done nothing wrong and neither has His blessed mother. I ask myself "Do either bear me any ill will?"
Not a single ounce.
This is worth more than many years of expensive counselling.

Comparing what we have to what we deserve shows everything as mercy.
I'm ashamed to admit this but at times when I'm really hard hearted and stubborn it can take as much as 15 mins of meditating on the passion and our blessed mother's sorrow before finally coming to my senses and forgiving.
One would think that a single glance at the cross or our Lords own words, "Forgive and you too shall be forgiven." would suffice, but sadly for many of us Irish revenge is almost considered a virtue.. Sigh.. But it is the truth.

Unlike many other places, bringing back old threads if there is something new to contribute is a good thing here. Smiley  We encourage it! Months, years later we may find God gives us a new insight, draw new benefit, have a new question.. threads may become like little booklets full of little treasures because of the different graces and inspirations each person finds woven together..

On other places oriented on conflict often threads become cyclic debates where nothing new is said or learned.. but here the goal is to find new goods.. and support the goods found..   Cheesy

Deo gratias et Mariae semper Virgini!

Yes.. this is a good thing to do.  Often I find in older threads some profound quotes that didn't quite register with me the first time round but on reading them again I can pick up much of what I missed, especially with the new comments attached. Hopefully this could be a sign of growth in the right direction.  

[Shin]

Regarding hurtful memories and problems with forgiving (earlier in this thread) I believe that both come from a non-appreciation of ones own sinfulness.
In order not to forgive or hold grudges against someone I must detach myself from my own culpability regarding the torture and death of our dear Lord.
No matter how much anyone has hurt me they can't have hurt me more than I myself have hurt and abused my Lord.

This is totally true Martin! I've fallen so far in my life, time and time again, and realized that without God's grace it could've been even farther.

When one realizes one is the lowest of the low, and there but for the grace of God you would be committing all the worst sins that now perhaps you hate and find unthinkable.. then you realize..

Everyone is forgivable.. the worst of the worst.. you can forgive everyone.. Because no one does anything good by his own power.. it is all of God.. without whom we can do nothing good.

Forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us..

What greater motivation?

[martin]

Yes Shin... Just raeding St Joseph of Cupertino again and he seems to confirm this.

" all the troubles of this world are nothing but the "play" battles children have with popguns."

This from a man who's life was filled with troubles but saw them for what they really where.

And St Paul says, "For I reckon that the sufferings of this time are not worthy to be compared with the glory to come, that shall be revealed in us. (Romans 8: 18)

[Shin]

Yes Shin... Just raeding St Joseph of Cupertino again and he seems to confirm this.

" all the troubles of this world are nothing but the "play" battles children have with popguns."

This from a man who's life was filled with troubles but saw them for what they really where.

And St Paul says, "For I reckon that the sufferings of this time are not worthy to be compared with the glory to come, that shall be revealed in us. (Romans 8: 18)

I am going to have to reread my biography of him. Thank you Fr. Pastrovicchi, O.M.C.! 

[Shin]

Play battles with popguns really stays in my mind. I keep thinking about it!