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odhiambo
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« on: April 08, 2013, 07:04:26 AM »

Doubts! Doubts! Doubts!
Here is an account of my very recent experience with doubt, that horrible feeling that Satan raises within us!
It started with a prayer to the Holy Spirit which I had sent to someone. She wrote back thanking me but voiced her concern that there is nowhere in the Bible where someone prays to the Holy Spirit and she was not sure at all if we should address the Holy Spirit in prayer!
“God is ONE “ I wrote back. You pray to one of them, you pray to all of them. I sent an article I found on the web supporting this view, not realizing that it was not from a Catholic perspective. Somewhere towards the end of the article, the same old tired topic of Catholics worshipping Mary, Saints, etc was mentioned and condemned as an insult to the Almighty.
I immediately sent a counter argument, this time from a Catholic source but the seed of doubt had already been planted.
Let me state from the outset that I am a dyed-in-the-wool Catholic, proudly so!
My doubt sprung from the fact that our prayers to God are mixed with those to others, e.g. the BVM.
After the “Our Father” where one’s attention is rightly focused on God, we move on to another prayer, for instance the “Hail Mary” where we now focus on Our Lady.  I told myself why not pray to God and God alone first and finish.  At another time, I can then pray to the BVM, to the saints, etc.
This morning at my prayer time, I did just that!
Then something happened which I found illuminating.
I have a small book titled “Your Word is My Path” It is a book for daily meditations.  After the prayers, I took the book to read today’s meditation.  It was, yes, you guess it: “Coping with Doubt”!
For today’s meditation, the author quoted from  "Pilgrim’s Reveries":

Read on:
DOUBTS AND FEARS
"Then he said to them, "Why are you troubled? And why do questions arise in your hearts?" (Lk 24:38)

A man went to stay with a friend in Cornwall, England, where there are a large number of deep holes in the ground where there used to be mine shafts. There are no fences or rails around them.

Well, one day this visiting friend took a walk and got lost. It was too dangerous to walk in the dark, but it was too cold to sit and wait till morning. So he moved ahead very, very carefully. But his foot slipped and he started to slide down a mine shaft. He just managed to grab an outcropping rock. There he hung, terrified, with his feet dangling. After about twenty minutes, he felt he was at the end of his strength, and he would soon have to let go and plunge to his death.
Then, much to his intense relief, he saw a little light in the distance and it was coming his way. He shouted with all the strength he had left.
When his rescuers came and shot their beam of light down on him, the first thing they saw was that his feet were dangling within a foot of solid earth. The mine shaft had been filled in. All his agony and fears had been for nothing!

I felt like it was an answer to my doubts: “ My agonies and fears are for nothing”!
I would still, however appreciate some inputs on the point raised of addressing God as well as others together, "in one breath", as it were crucifix


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« Reply #1 on: April 08, 2013, 10:03:09 AM »

Hi Odhiambo, you are keeping me busy this morning Smiley, I thought this might help, it's from the New Ignatius study bible, Catholic edition:
John 16:13 "When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all truth". And the verse goes on, This is what the study says.
"he will guide you: The work of the Spirit counteracts the work of Satan. The former disclose the full meaning of the gospel (14:26); the latter spreads deception and falsehood throughout the world (8:44). The point here is that the Spirit continues the teaching mission of Jesus to bear witness to the truth(8:31-32). Vatican II outlines the doctrine of magisterial infallibility, meaning that the pope alone or the pope and the bishops united with him are divinely protected from teaching error when they define matters pertaining to faith and morals. The guidance of the Spirit is Christ's guarantee that the gospel will not be corrupted, distorted, or misunderstood by the ordained shepherds of the church during her earthly pilgrimage (ccc 768, 889-92)".

Reading that, I am now going to see what the catechism has to say on the subject of prayer and there is a lot. I will get back to you. One verse I have read that I like states, "The Lord leads all persons by paths and in ways pleasing to Him, and each believer responds according to his hearts resolve and the personal expressions of his prayers. (ccc 2699)"
PS Do you have a Catechism?
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odhiambo
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« Reply #2 on: April 08, 2013, 10:13:49 AM »

Hi Odhiambo, you are keeping me busy this morning Smiley, I thought this might help, it's from the New Ignatius study bible, Catholic edition:
John 16:13 "When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all truth". And the verse goes on, This is what the study says.
"he will guide you: The work of the Spirit counteracts the work of Satan. The former disclose the full meaning of the gospel (14:26); the latter spreads deception and falsehood throughout the world (8:44). The point here is that the Spirit continues the teaching mission of Jesus to bear witness to the truth(8:31-32). Vatican II outlines the doctrine of magisterial infallibility, meaning that the pope alone or the pope and the bishops united with him are divinely protected from teaching error when they define matters pertaining to faith and morals. The guidance of the Spirit is Christ's guarantee that the gospel will not be corrupted, distorted, or misunderstood by the ordained shepherds of the church during her earthly pilgrimage (ccc 768, 889-92)".

Reading that, I am now going to see what the catechism has to say on the subject of prayer and there is a lot. I will get back to you. One verse I have read that I like states, "The Lord leads all persons by paths and in ways pleasing to Him, and each believer responds according to his hearts resolve and the personal expressions of his prayers. (ccc 2699)"
PS Do you have a Catechism?

Yes, I do George. What I wanted to clear up is whether it is acceptable as I am talking to God in prayer to also pray to the saints  or Our Lady at the same time.
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Jesus, Jesus, Jesus!
Inspirational Quotes from the saints:
'If men but knew Thee, O my God!'
St. Ignatius of Loyola
“Late have I loved Thee,
 O Beauty ever ancient, ever new,
 late have I loved Thee!......”
St. Augustine of Hippo
George
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« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2013, 10:27:42 AM »

I personally don't have any problem with that, I sort of visualize my self surrounded by Mary and the saints when I pray, I guess the best way to describe it is like in Acts 1:13-14 and Acts 2:1-4, kind of, it's hard to explain. I always believed God was reading my heart when I prayed and as Saint Paul said in Romans 8:26-27, "The Spirit helps us in our weakness; For we do not know how to pray as we ought, but the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with sighs to deep for words. And he who searches the hearts of men knows what is in the mind of the Spirit,
because the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God."
I'm off to read my Catechism
God Bless
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odhiambo
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« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2013, 12:58:18 PM »

I personally don't have any problem with that, I sort of visualize my self surrounded by Mary and the saints when I pray, I guess the best way to describe it is like in Acts 1:13-14 and Acts 2:1-4, kind of, it's hard to explain. I always believed God was reading my heart when I prayed and as Saint Paul said in Romans 8:26-27, "The Spirit helps us in our weakness; For we do not know how to pray as we ought, but the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with sighs to deep for words. And he who searches the hearts of men knows what is in the mind of the Spirit,
because the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God."
I'm off to read my Catechism
God Bless
Thank you George.
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Jesus, Jesus, Jesus!
Inspirational Quotes from the saints:
'If men but knew Thee, O my God!'
St. Ignatius of Loyola
“Late have I loved Thee,
 O Beauty ever ancient, ever new,
 late have I loved Thee!......”
St. Augustine of Hippo
George
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Saint Joseph please pray for my children


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« Reply #5 on: April 08, 2013, 03:48:03 PM »

Odhiambo, I've been reading the catechism,may I suggest reading 2670-2672 on the Holy Spirit, it's really quite beautiful and may allay some of your concern. Also 2683-2684 about the witnesses, the saints, this is what I was alluding to when I said being surrounded by them, when I pray, I'm inviting them all to join in and pray with me, sort of like when we hold hands in church to pray the Our Father, after every prayer I say I always add, "Thy will be done". I hope this helps.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2013, 03:59:01 PM by haji » Logged

George ( Haji )
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