Quote for the Day: Better Hell Than Heaven With Thee

[Shin]

'Know then that I despise thee and would rather choose to be condemned to hell without thee, than to possess God through thy means. For a pure mind cannot suffer anything to come between itself and God, for it desires to possess Him entirely and to be as pure and simple as He is himself. And this being so, how could it endure to be assisted by thee who art so hideous, and who would always glorify thyself unworthily over thy achievements? And although I know that such a thing could never be, it fills me with indignation to find that I have even imagined it or that any mind should ever conceive it possible!

Thus scorned, my self knew not what to answer, and never more had courage to assert itself: it no longer looked either at the body or the soul, toward heaven or toward earth; but I saw it remain always by itself with all its malicious inclinations, and had God permitted it, it would have done more evil against him than Lucifer himself. Yet, as I saw that God continually restrained it, this sight gave me no uneasiness, nor did it ever cause me any torment or suffering. Rather was the effect directly contrary, for he who loves justice is rejoiced when robbers are punished, and surely he who, being evil by nature, desires to become good by his own efforts, is a robber worthy to be punished in hell-fire.'

St. Catherine of Genoa

[martin]

I've read this 3 times and just now the penny has dropped.

The saint is talking about foolishly relying on our own efforts in a  attempt to achieve holiness at the expense of reliance on grace.
As if we can be our own savior.

I really love this quote and would like to read it in it's full context.
Which book is it from Shin?

[Shin]

Life and Doctrine

She became such an enemy to herself that nothing but necessity ever caused her to speak of herself at all, and she would never do so in particular but would generally say us; and she said: “The evil nature of man is pleased with being mentioned, and the greatest blow that can be given it is never to speak of it at all, and never make it of any account; therefore do not willingly name it in any manner.” And to her own nature she said: “I know thee and rate thee as thou deservest: thou canst not advocate thy cause with me.” And if an angel had come to say a word in favor of herself, she would not have believed him, so certain was she of her own malignity.

And, having this clear knowledge of herself, she was constrained by it to accept with resignation whatever might befall either her body or her soul, so that whenever she found in herself any defect or any pain, she would say quickly: “These things are caused solely by my own evil nature, and of this I am so certain that I know not how I could produce other fruits than these which are so hateful. I never could do so if God did not assist me. But I know well, having been shown by God the imperfections and malignity of our own inclination, that we can never, except by the help of divine grace, do anything but evil. Good is as hopeless to us as to the demons, and even more so, for, unlike them, we have a body and a free-will which ally themselves to our depravity and do all the evil they can, which is more or less accordingly as God abandons us to our own control.

“But, for one who desires to approach God, it is necessary to become the enemy of his enemies; and, as I find nothing that is worse than myself, nor that is more inimical to him, I am compelled to hold myself in more aversion than anything else whatever, and will even despise myself and count it to be worthless. And, on the other hand, I will detach my spirit from all the goods of both this world and the other, which I will henceforth regard as if they had no existence. I have implored God neither to suffer me to rejoice interiorly nor to grieve over any created thing, so that I may never be seen to shed a single tear.

And I have begged him to take away from me the freedom of my will, so that I may no longer do what pleases me, but only what is according to his pleasure: all these things I have obtained from his clemency.

“Now, seeing me thus determined, my self said to me: ‘Grant me, at least, the consolation of not hearing myself thus spoken of: for, whatever I am, it is necessary that I should exist in some manner. There is no creature which is not suitably provided for according to its needs, and I also am one of God’s creatures.’ Then the spirit rose up and answered: ‘Thou art indeed a creature of God, but thou art not according to God, and if thou wishest to be so thou must be first despoiled of all thou hast previously acquired, first by original sin and afterwards by the actual sins which thou hast freely multiplied, and which are more odious in the sight of God than thou couldst believe were it told thee. And when I see thee more covered with secret sins than a cat is with hairs, I know not where thou findest courage to say that thou art of God. If I were so mad as to feed thee according to thy inclinations, which are so corrupt and contrary to the purity which God requires, I should do two evil and perilous things: one is that I should never satisfy thee, and the other that thou wouldst every day grow stronger and wound me more and more acutely; and as I am myself full of evil, thou wouldst attack me secretly and in an apparently spiritual manner, and then no one but God could overcome thee. Speak to me no more of thy crafty designs, for I have determined to disregard thee.

[Shin]

Only God is good.

[Shin]

Thanks Martin, this reminds me it would be good to edit and prepare her works better and put the rest up there.

[martin]

This is bringing to mind what I've read this week. I've been reading the book of Daniel and one of the things that stood out so clearly was when Daniel addressed a prayer to the Lord on behalf of his people, he, although an upright and God-fearing man, counted himself among all the evil doers and always spoke of "we" when saying, "We have sinned and turned away from Your laws. We have not remained faithful to our God."

A good lesson to me when praying for the conversion of someone. Even if I haven't committed the particular sins of that person, I have committed uncountable other sins and the ones that I haven't committed are not because of any goodness in me but purely by the grace of God.
So I can honestly kneel and say "we" when I'm praying for anyone, and include myself in their sins because even if I haven't sinned in that way, I am more than capable of doing so if left to my own devices.

[Shin]

This is bringing to mind what I've read this week. I've been reading the book of Daniel and one of the things that stood out so clearly was when Daniel addressed a prayer to the Lord on behalf of his people, he, although an upright and God-fearing man, counted himself among all the evil doers and always spoke of "we" when saying, "We have sinned and turned away from Your laws. We have not remained faithful to our God."

A good lesson to me when praying for the conversion of someone. Even if I haven't committed the particular sins of that person, I have committed uncountable other sins and the ones that I haven't committed are not because of any goodness in me but purely by the grace of God.
So I can honestly kneel and say "we" when I'm praying for anyone, and include myself in their sins because even if I haven't sinned in that way, I am more than capable of doing so if left to my own devices.

That sounds like a quote from a saint I read recently! There but for the grace of God.. There but for the grace of God.. it's true, it's perfectly true.. We truly are the worst of sinners.

[Charles]

'Know then that I despise thee and would rather choose to be condemned to hell without thee, than to possess God through thy means. For a pure mind cannot suffer anything to come between itself and God, for it desires to possess Him entirely and to be as pure and simple as He is himself. And this being so, how could it endure to be assisted by thee who art so hideous, and who would always glorify thyself unworthily over thy achievements? And although I know that such a thing could never be, it fills me with indignation to find that I have even imagined it or that any mind should ever conceive it possible!

Thus scorned, my self knew not what to answer, and never more had courage to assert itself: it no longer looked either at the body or the soul, toward heaven or toward earth; but I saw it remain always by itself with all its malicious inclinations, and had God permitted it, it would have done more evil against him than Lucifer himself. Yet, as I saw that God continually restrained it, this sight gave me no uneasiness, nor did it ever cause me any torment or suffering. Rather was the effect directly contrary, for he who loves justice is rejoiced when robbers are punished, and surely he who, being evil by nature, desires to become good by his own efforts, is a robber worthy to be punished in hell-fire.'

St. Catherine of Genoa

Thanks for this Shin, I've read it a few times. Very inspiring.

[Shin]

You're welcome Charles. 

The more one reads St. Catherine, the more deep things one finds I am thinking!

[Shin]

'The most simple means to be always favored with new gifts and graces, and to love God more and more, is to look with the eye of faith into the abyss of our nothingness, and, in the fear which this sight will inspire, to fly into the interior of the desert, in the abyss of the Divinity, wherein we let our nothingness disappear and passively receive divine inspirations.'

St. Paul of the Cross

[Brigid]

For a pure mind cannot suffer anything to come between itself and God, for it desires to possess Him entirely and to be as pure and simple as He is himself.

[Shin]

That's something to meditate on.. consistently..

[Brigid]

Yes, consistently.