Matt. 19:9

[Brigid]

What do you take this verse to mean - the deeper meaning, that is.

[Patricia]

And I say to you, that whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and he that shall marry her that is put away, committeth adultery.

Divorce and adultery is bad?  Deeper meaning...hmmm   Maybe God is indirectly asking us to stay single.

[Brigid]

Or maybe He is (other than the literal meaning) talking of idolatry?

[Patricia]

You mean to make an idol of another human being, by being obsessed by them and thus being led to sin?

[Brigid]

You mean to make an idol of another human being, by being obsessed by them and thus being led to sin?

Well, either another person or some thing.

[Shin]

Hmm.. well literal meaning, you're allowed to live separately because of fornication, but you're still married of course..

If we take fornication to mean idolization.. or move this to the level of spiritual adultery..

Mortal sin.. spiritual separation..?

I am just pulling things out of a hat here, I have not tried to think about this verse like this before..

[Brigid]

Taking what you said further, Shin, spiritually denying even if only for a moment (through spiritual separation) our Lord. - Mortal sin.

[Brigid]

Couldn't this lead to the "blasphemy of the Holy Spirit"? Hence, unforgivable.

[Shin]

Well our union with the Lord is often compared to marriage..

If we live in adultery.. separation, though one is still 'married' is the right of the husband or wife..

One could compare baptism and such to an 'engagement'..

Hmm.. Well..

Any unrepentant sin is unforgivable.. Some sins dispose us particularly to lack of repentance, becoming vices that we live in..

Hmm.. let me look at my references..

'He who secretly mingles his own wishes with spiritual counsel is an adulterer, as the Book of Proverbs indicates (cf. Prov. 6:32-33); and because of his stupidity he suffers pain and dishonor.'

St. Mark the Ascetic

And the passages related to this then are..

'Six things there are, which the Lord hateth, and the seventh his soul detesteth: Haughty eyes, a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that deviseth wicked plots, feet that are swift to run into mischief, a deceitful witness that uttereth lies, and him that soweth discord among brethren.

My son, keep the commandments of thy father, and forsake not the law of thy mother.

Bind them in thy heart continually, and put them about thy neck. When thou walkest, let them go with thee: when thou sleepest, let them keep thee; and when thou awakest, talk with them. Because the commandment is a lamp, and the law a light, and reproofs of instruction are the way of life: That they may keep thee from the evil woman, and from the flattering tongue of the stranger. Let not thy heart covet her beauty, be not caught with her winks:

For the price of a harlot is scarce one loaf: but the woman catcheth the precious soul of a man. Can a man hide fire in his bosom, and his garments not burn? Or can he walk upon hot coals, and his feet not be burnt? So he that goeth in to his neighbour's wife, shall not be clean when he shall touch her. The fault is not so great when a man hath stolen: for he stealeth to fill his hungry soul:

"The fault is not so great"... The sin of theft is not so great, as to be compared with adultery: especially when a person pressed with hunger (which is the case here spoken of) steals to satisfy nature. Moreover the damage done by theft may much more easily be repaired, than the wrong done by adultery. But this does not hinder, but that theft also is a mortal sin, forbidden by one of the ten commandments.

And if he be taken he shall restore sevenfold, and shall give up all the substance of his house. But he that is an adulterer, for the folly of his heart shall destroy his own soul: He gathereth to himself shame and dishonour, and his reproach shall not be blotted out: Because the jealousy and rage of the husband will not spare in the day of revenge, nor will he yield to any man's prayers, nor will he accept for satisfaction ever so many gifts.

Proverbs 6 Extracts

'If then we are found to be living in accordance with neither law nor Gospel, but rather, as one might say, with paganism, what shall we suffer on that day? Do not be led astray, Scripture says, neither fornicators nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor Sodomites nor thieves nor extortioners nor drunkards nor slanderers nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God.'

St. Theodore the Studite

St. Diadochos speaks of the devil seeking an adulterous union with the soul through false spiritual joy..

I'm still just grasping at straws here.

What are you seeing Brigid?

[Brigid]

The quote of St. Mark the Ascetic fits just perfectly as does:

and his reproach shall not be blotted out: Because the jealousy and rage of the husband will not spare in the day of revenge, nor will he yield to any man's prayers, nor will he accept for satisfaction ever so many gifts.

Proverbs 6 Extracts

So it would seem to me that what we had posted about the first part of that Scriptural quotation is verified, but what about the second part?  Maybe:

and him that soweth discord among brethren.

or

If then we are found to be living in accordance with neither law nor Gospel, but rather, as one might say, with paganism,

If you're grasping at straws, Shin, you're doing an awfully good job!

[pebbles]

Matt 19:9  Therefore I say to you: whoever divorces his wife, unless it be for concubinage, and marries another, commits adultery.

Protestants argue that divorce is allowed because Jesus allowed it for the reason of concubinage or fornication... But I think they read only up to the point where they want to read.  Since it continues with "and marries another, commits adultery".  Ok, since people are so stubborn (as Jesus said they were) divorce was allowed.  BUT! It doesn't mean YOU CAN RE-MARRY.    Because for Jesus, it would mean you will become adulterous. 

And I think this is the reason why the Church has always maintained there will be no divorce for Catholics.  They are safe guarding the souls of the people.  If people are divorced, they'd think, "Hey, it's ok.  I can marry again."  And of course that would mean they'd be committing the sin of adultery and damn their immortal souls.   

So what makes it different from being annulled? Well, if the marriage is considered annulled it means the marriage that took place was actually null and void. With the divorce, the marriage is valid.

As for the legally separated, it means the couple just live separately, and there is still a chance for reconciliation.