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Saints' Discussion Forums  |  Forums  |  Saints' & Spiritual Life General Discussion  |  Topic: Excerpts from the Desert: Madmen and Demons 0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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Author Topic: Excerpts from the Desert: Madmen and Demons  (Read 5926 times)
Shin
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« on: July 13, 2011, 07:21:52 PM »

Abba Antonios said: "The time is coming when people will be seized by manias and will behave like madmen. And if they see anyone acting reasonably, they will rise up against him saying: 'You are insane.' And they will have accurately said this to him, for he will not be like them."

* * *

Several brothers went to Abba Antonios to relate to him certain visions which they beheld and to ascertain from him whether the visions were true or of demonic origin. They had along with them a small donkey which died on the way. Just as they reached Abba Antonios, he, expecting them, said: "How did the little donkey die on the road?"

"How did you know this, Abba?" they said to him.

"The demons revealed it to me."

And they answered him: "It is for this reason that we came to see you, for fear of being deceived, since we see visions and many times they come true."

Thus, with the foregoing example of the donkey, the elder made it known to them that their visions came forth from the demons.

* * *

Once a brother infested by a demon in Scete came along and prayers were said for him in church, but the demon persisted and would not go out of him. The clergy of that place said to each other, "What shall we do about this demon? Nobody will be able to cast it out except Abba Besarion, but if we go and ask him about it he will be sure to stay away from church. So then let's do this: Tomorrow he will be in church with everyone else. Let's let the sick brother sleep in Besarion's place, and when he comes in we will stand up to pray and say to him, 'Wake that brother up, Abba.'"

And that is what they did. When the old man came in next morning they stood up to pray and said to him, "Wake that brother up, Abba." And the old man said to the afflicted brother, "Get up, go out." And immediately the demon came out of him and he was made whole from that hour.

* * *

It was said of a certain Elder that for seven years he besought God to grant him a particular spiritual gift, and this gift was finally bestowed on him. He then went to a great Elder and told him about the gift. But when the latter heard about it, he was distressed and said to the visiting Elder, "You have labored mightily for this gift. Now go and implore God for another seven years that He take it from you, for it is of no benefit to you." The Elder departed and did as he was bidden, until God removed the gift from him.

* * *

The Devil appeared to one of the brothers, transformed into an Angel of light, and said to him: "I am Gabriel and I have been sent to you." The brother answered, "Make sure you have not been sent to someone else, for I am not worthy to see Angels, living in sins as I do." The Devil immediately vanished.

* * *

The Elder replied, "I have no desire to cast out demons or cure illnesses, but I wish, and entreat God, that a demon not enter into me and that I cleanse myself of unclean thoughts. If I accomplish that, I will truly have become great. For if anyone cleanses his heart of unclean thoughts and resolutely performs his rule of prayer, he will assuredly be vouchsafed the Kingdom of Heaven, together with the Fathers who worked miracles."

* * *

Abba Pityrion, the disciple of Abba Anthony, used to say: "Let him who wishes to drive out demons from others first subdue the cognate passions; for, whatever passion one overcomes, he drives out the corresponding demon. The passion of anger, of lust, or of sorrow follows a man and takes up residence in his soul whenever the kindred demon so desires. If, therefore, you gain control over a particular passion, you have thereby expelled the demon that accompanies that passion."
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'Flores apparuerunt in terra nostra. . . Fulcite me floribus. (The flowers appear on the earth. . . stay me up with flowers. Sg 2:12,5)
Shin
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« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2011, 07:22:28 PM »

Certain heretical ascetics once visited the monastery directed by St. Pachomios, hiding their inner wolf under garments of coarse hair. Standing at the gatehouse, they told the brethren who were there: "We have been sent by our own Father to the great Elder Pachomios. Go into the monastery, therefore, and say to him: 'If you are truly a man of God and are confident that God listens to you, come with us and let us cross this river on foot, walking on the surface of the waters, so that all might know which of us possesses greater boldness before God.'"

When the brothers reported these words to Pachomios, he replied to them in indignation: "Tell me, did you actually consent to listen to these men? Have you not yet learned that such suggestions have nothing to do with God are are totally alien, not only to our monastic life, but also to sensible lay people who are true Christians? What law allows us to suggest such ideas and to perform such deeds? Indeed, what worse state could there be than this kind of foolishness? That is, that I should cease mourning my sins and from being concerned, as I ought, about avoiding eternal punishment, and occupy myself, like a small child, with such inanities?"

The brothers replied to him: "How could these men, being heretics and enemies of God, have dared to challenge you to such a miraculous feat?" St. Pachomios replied to them, "Why, this suggestion is typical of heretics. Have you not read the Apostolic dictum that says: "After their hardness and impenitent heart God gave them over to a reprobate mind?" (Romans 2:5, 1:28) By God's consent, these men would perhaps have been able to cross the river as if it were dry bed, because the Devil would have cooperated with them in order to validate their ungodly heresy in the eyes of those who place their trust in him, and, by the performance of this miracle to reassure those whom he had already deceived. As for me, I have no need of such prodigies in order to believe."

Go and tell them that this is what the servant of God Pachomios has to say to them: "My struggle and my whole purpose in life is not to cross a river dryshod, to fly over mountains, or to give orders to wild beasts, but to understand the Will of God and to overcome the wiles of the Devil by the power of the Lord, Who commands us to "tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy." (Luke 10:19). When the Lord has granted me these things, all the rest will assuredly follow."

Having said these things he exhorted the brothers not to become prideful over their own achievements or to be frightened by any visions, or to tempt God through such foolish requests, because many are the wiles of the adversary and because all such things are superfluous and dangerous for a man. For as the Savior said to the Enemy: "Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God." (Matt. 4:7, Luke 4:12)

Brother if you are vouchsafed a spiritual gift, do not be high minded, for you possess nothing good that you have not received from God. If, having received such a gift, you do not walk according to His Will, He will take it away from you and give it to one who is better and of humble mind.
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'Flores apparuerunt in terra nostra. . . Fulcite me floribus. (The flowers appear on the earth. . . stay me up with flowers. Sg 2:12,5)
martin
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« Reply #2 on: July 14, 2011, 10:45:00 AM »

The wisdom of the Desert Fathers.
I could read this stuff all day.  boggles
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Shin
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« Reply #3 on: July 14, 2011, 10:45:57 AM »

I found the last one quite thought provoking, and enjoyed thinking it out. Cheesy
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'Flores apparuerunt in terra nostra. . . Fulcite me floribus. (The flowers appear on the earth. . . stay me up with flowers. Sg 2:12,5)
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« Reply #4 on: July 14, 2011, 10:47:08 AM »

The wisdom of the Desert Fathers.
I could read this stuff all day.  boggles

So could I!  Cheesy
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'Flores apparuerunt in terra nostra. . . Fulcite me floribus. (The flowers appear on the earth. . . stay me up with flowers. Sg 2:12,5)
martin
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« Reply #5 on: July 14, 2011, 10:51:39 AM »

Ah.. there's so much wisdom in all his teachings. The truth of what he says is so obvious that it makes one embarrassed for having to be told it in the first place.  Embarrassed
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"I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me.
(Galatians 2:20)
Shin
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« Reply #6 on: July 14, 2011, 11:07:22 AM »

The last text makes me think of some of what Fr. Hunolt has to say in his summary of the times of Antichrist, how many false miracles and lying wonders will abound.. and if I recall correctly I too at some point that Christian miracles will be scarce at best. .

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'Flores apparuerunt in terra nostra. . . Fulcite me floribus. (The flowers appear on the earth. . . stay me up with flowers. Sg 2:12,5)
martin
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« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2011, 11:34:11 AM »

Yes... St Vincent Ferrer warns of such false miracles too and how true Christian miracles will cease at that time. He equates "The sun will lose its brightness" as referring to Christ not being declared in those times when shepherds and pastors fall silent due to their worldly obsessions.
There are so many so-called visions throughout the world today and many follow them blindly even though the message sometimes has subtle contradictions concerning doctrines of the faith. I think in these times we really must stay awake.  Shocked
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"I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me.
(Galatians 2:20)
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« Reply #8 on: July 14, 2011, 05:46:55 PM »

Hi Shin,  what year was this written?  I find it interesting the use of the term, mania (first one), though I am sure that is used in a colloquial sense.  In any case, I sure loved that one.  Applies very well today.  My kids don't like wild parties where kids "grind"  which is simply a way to say they dance in humping fashion (if you get my gist).  So because they don't like that and won't go, they are the "weird" ones.  Things don't change much, do they?  Sounds like ancient Rome and the Christians.
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Shin
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« Reply #9 on: July 14, 2011, 06:03:57 PM »

I believe the Abba Antonios here is St. Anthony the Great, which would make it (c. 251–356 A.D.). That should be around the proper time regardless.

The desert monks spent all of their time battling the passions and so, their lives were focused a good deal on the psychology of dealing with that.
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'Flores apparuerunt in terra nostra. . . Fulcite me floribus. (The flowers appear on the earth. . . stay me up with flowers. Sg 2:12,5)
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« Reply #10 on: July 14, 2011, 10:16:35 PM »

The words were rough translations then,

But, all the Saints had the psychology down, better I'd say than today's psychologists.  I think sometimes things are a lot simpler than psychologists try to make them.   Wink
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