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Saints' Discussion Forums  |  Forums  |  Saints' & Spiritual Life General Discussion  |  Topic: Consent to Sin 0 Members and 5 Guests are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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Therese
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« on: February 14, 2010, 10:21:16 AM »

I just read the quote by St. Francis de Sales that was posted that had to do with consent and sin.  He points out that it is always sinful to consent in the slightest to a temptation.  My question has to do with mortal sin and the full consent that is required for a sin to be mortal (along with the other two conditions).  What exactly is full consent vs. consent that is not full?  Thanks in advance to anyone who knows the answer and can respond. 
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Shin
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« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2010, 12:50:23 PM »

I just read the quote by St. Francis de Sales that was posted that had to do with consent and sin.  He points out that it is always sinful to consent in the slightest to a temptation.  My question has to do with mortal sin and the full consent that is required for a sin to be mortal (along with the other two conditions).  What exactly is full consent vs. consent that is not full?  Thanks in advance to anyone who knows the answer and can respond. 

Yes, I believe I know the quotations you mentioned. Perhaps it is from these?

'Picture to yourself a young princess beloved of her husband, to whom some evil wretch should send a messenger to tempt her to infidelity. First, the messenger would bring forth his propositions. Secondly, the princess would either accept or reject the overtures. Thirdly, she would consent to them or refuse them. Even so, when Satan, the world, and the flesh look upon a soul espoused to the Son of God, they set temptations and suggestions before that soul, whereby -- 1. Sin is proposed to it. 2. Which proposals are either pleasing or displeasing to the soul. 3. The soul either consents, or rejects them. In other words, the three downward steps of temptation, delectation, and consent. And although the three steps may not always be so clearly defined as in this illustration, they are to be plainly traced in all great and serious sins. If we should undergo the temptation to every sin whatsoever during our whole life, that would not damage us in the Sight of God's Majesty, provided we took no pleasure in it, and did not consent to it; and that because in temptation we do not act, we only suffer, and inasmuch as we take no delight in it, we can be liable to no blame.'

'Come what may in the shape of temptation, attended by whatsoever of delectation, - so long as your will refuses consent, not merely to the temptation itself, but also to the delectation, you need have no fear, - God is not offended. When any one has swooned away, and gives no sign of life, we put our hand to his heart, and if we find the slightest fluttering there, we conclude that he still lives, and that, with the help of stimulants and counter-irritants, we may restore consciousness and power. Even so, sometimes amid the violence of temptation the soul seems altogether to faint away, and to lose all spiritual life and action. But if you would be sure how it really is, put your hand on the heart. See whether heart and will yet have any spiritual motion; that is to say, whether they fulfil their own special duty in refusing consent to and acceptance of temptation and its gratification; for so long as the power to refuse exists within the soul, we may be sure that Love, the life of the soul, is there, and that Jesus Christ, our Lord and Saviour, is within, although, it may be, hidden; and that by means of stedfast perseverance in prayer, and the Sacraments, and confidence in God, strength will be restored, and the soul will live with a full and joyous life.'

'That princess, whom we have already taken as an illustration, was not to blame in the unlawful pursuit we supposed to be made of her, because it was against her will; but if, on the contrary, she had in any way led to it, or sought to attract him who sought her, she were certainly guilty of the pursuit itself; and even if she withheld her consent, she would still deserve censure and punishment. Thus it sometimes happens that temptation in itself is sin to us, because we have ourselves brought it upon us. For instance, if I know that gaming leads me to passion and blasphemy, and that all play is a temptation to me, I sin each and every time that I play, and I am responsible for all the temptations which may come upon me at the gaming table. So again, if I know that certain society involves me in temptation to evil, and yet I voluntarily seek it, I am unquestionably responsible for all that I may encounter in the way of temptation therein.'

'When it is possible to avoid the delectation arising out of temptation, it is always a sin to accept it, in proportion to the pleasure we take, and the amount of consent given, whether that be great or small, brief or lasting. The princess of our illustration is to blame if she merely listens to the guilty propositions made to her but still more so if, after listening, she takes pleasure in them, and allows her heart to feed and rest thereupon; for although she has no intention of really doing that which is proposed, her heart gives a spiritual consent when she takes pleasure in it, and it must always be wrong to let either body or mind rest on anything unworthy, - and wrongdoing lies so entirely in the heart's co-operation, that without this no mere bodily action can be sin.

Therefore, when you are tempted to any sin, examine whether you voluntarily exposed yourself to the temptation, and if you find that you have done so by putting yourself into its way, or by not foreseeing the temptation, as you ought to have done, then it is sin; but if you have done nothing to bring about the temptation, it is not in anywise to be imputed to you as sin.'

'When the delectation which attends temptation might have been avoided, but has not been avoided, there is always a certain amount of sin according to the degree to which we have lingered over it, and the kind of pleasure we have taken in it. If a woman who has not wilfully attracted unlawful admiration, nevertheless takes pleasure in such admiration, she is doing wrong, always supposing that what pleases her is the admiration. But if the person who courts her plays exquisitely on the lute, and she took pleasure, not in the personal attentions paid to herself, but in the sweetness and harmony of the music, there would be no sin in that, although it would be wrong to give way to any extent to her pleasure, for fear of its leading on to pleasure in the pursuit of herself. So again, if some clever stratagem whereby to avenge me of an enemy is suggested, and I take no satisfaction and give no consent to the vengeance, but am only pleased at the cleverness of the invention, I am not sinning; although it were very inexpedient to dwell long upon it, lest little by little I should go on to take pleasure in the thought of revenge.'

St. Francis de Sales

'A person sins by complacency, when he does not desire to commit the sinful act, but delights in it as if he had committed it. This complacency is called morose delectation. It is called morose, not because the complacency in the thought of the unchaste acts lasts for a considerable time, but because the will dwells with delight on the thought. Hence the sin of complacency may, as St. Thomas teaches, be committed in a moment. "It is called morose," says the holy Doctor, "not be cause one fakes pleasure for some time in the impure act, but because the will is resolved to dwell on the thought which it should reject at once." he says "libenter" (" with pleasure") to remove scruples from persons of timorous conscience, who suffer against their will certain carnal motions and delights, although they do all in their power to banish them. Though the inferior part should feel a certain delight, as long as the will does not consent, there is no sin, at least no mortal sin.'

St. Alphonsus Maria de Liguori
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Therese
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« Reply #2 on: February 15, 2010, 10:32:23 AM »

Yes, the quote I mentioned is from this web site.  Thanks for your response, Shin.  I sent you a personal message with another question I hope you can help me with.  Peace and God bless!
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« Reply #3 on: February 15, 2010, 10:53:15 AM »

I want to reply more here but I am trying to find some references I recall reading and more.

I want to use them rather than put it into my own words so it is solid.

May take a few, pray my guardian angel guides me properly through my library! I recall seeing once, I think, some good step by steps detailing consent.
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Therese
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« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2010, 09:21:58 PM »

I'll pray you can find the proper sources, Shin.  Your help is greatly appreciated.
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« Reply #5 on: October 18, 2010, 08:33:44 AM »

I'm glad you brought this up again I had forgotten.

Back to looking!

There's a sermon on Audio Sancto I wanted to listen to on the topic too, besides quotes.. If I can just find it.
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'Flores apparuerunt in terra nostra. . . Fulcite me floribus. (The flowers appear on the earth. . . stay me up with flowers. Sg 2:12,5)
Therese
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« Reply #6 on: October 18, 2010, 08:52:11 PM »

Thanks, Shin!
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Seek ye therefore first the kingdom of God, and his justice, and all these things shall be added unto you (Matth. 6:33).
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