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Author Topic: Book Study: Interior Castle - by St. Teresa of Avila  (Read 127295 times)
Patricia
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« Reply #48 on: March 16, 2010, 05:10:09 PM »

Good explanation. Thanks Therese. Focus on prayer and not to worry about aridity or consolations.
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Brigid
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« Reply #49 on: March 16, 2010, 05:14:33 PM »

Another question...this one has never ceased to baffle me.
How do you discern what is the Will of God in a particular situation where you are faced with two choices and both seem equally important.
For example, I faced this situation after my husband passing where there was pressure on me to move from my present place to be closer to friends, pressure to move back to India etc and I was really confused on what the Will of God was for me. After almost making the move i retracted and decided to stay on for the sake of my childrens' stability. But all this was after I had stupidly paid in a deposit for a place I was planning to move to another city.
So am I doing the Will of God by making this decision or have I gone against His Will by not moving?
I have faced this dual choice situation many a time and it has always confused me as to whether the choice I make will be compatible with the Will of God.
Any suggestions on how you deal with similar situations?

#1 - it may be that you'll get a larger amount of responses for this in a thread of it's own.

#2 - I'll say only what I've learned, take this with a huge amount of "grains of salt" Grin. First of all, I'll assume you are speaking of God's Perfect Will rather than His Permissive Will - anything that happens to us is His Will one way or the other. I have read a lot on this ('cause I struggle with this constantly) and the basics are that it can't be something against Scripture or the teaching of the Church. Also, pray about it constantly, asking Him what He prefers. Do what you can and know to do, then don't be anxious. He'll make sure you know when it is the best time for you. Another thing I've come across and has made so much sense to me; if you are anxious/confused about doing something while praying about it - that's from the devil. If, on the other hand, when you pray about doing something, you feel at peace then it's from Him. Undecided That's what I've seen. I hope it helps you.
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Therese
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« Reply #50 on: March 16, 2010, 07:35:11 PM »

Good explanation. Thanks Therese. Focus on prayer and not to worry about aridity or consolations.

Yes, Patricia, let us keep our focus on God and prayer.
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Seek ye therefore first the kingdom of God, and his justice, and all these things shall be added unto you (Matth. 6:33).
Patricia
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« Reply #51 on: March 16, 2010, 08:06:32 PM »

Brigid and Therese, that helps.
But I don't like to be in that spot when I'm faced with 2 or 3 options and not sure which choice would be in perfect accordance to the Divine Will. Undecided
Again I guess the answer  is prayer and trusting God will guide my decision making.
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Therese
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« Reply #52 on: March 17, 2010, 10:15:59 PM »

Brigid and Therese, that helps.
But I don't like to be in that spot when I'm faced with 2 or 3 options and not sure which choice would be in perfect accordance to the Divine Will. Undecided
Again I guess the answer  is prayer and trusting God will guide my decision making.

Yes, Patricia, pray and trust God to guide your decision making.

When in doubt as to what you should do when confronted with alternative choices just ask yourself "What would Jesus do?"  If Jesus were a parent and He had children He would put them first and Himself last.  It is the will of God that you take the best care of your children and that is what you were trying to do when you decided not to move to India.  I think God is pleased with your decision; after all, you were trying to act responsibly as a parent and thought of your children before yourself.
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Seek ye therefore first the kingdom of God, and his justice, and all these things shall be added unto you (Matth. 6:33).
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« Reply #53 on: March 17, 2010, 11:39:35 PM »

Thanks Therese, that helps! Smiley
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« Reply #54 on: March 18, 2010, 10:52:55 AM »

Thanks Therese, that helps! Smiley

You're welcome, Patricia. Smiley
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Seek ye therefore first the kingdom of God, and his justice, and all these things shall be added unto you (Matth. 6:33).
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« Reply #55 on: March 22, 2010, 02:27:37 PM »

Shin, when you're not so busy, could we have the 4th chapter of Interior Castle? I know you thought the information about the prayer would be beyond many of us, however since St. Teresa admits that God often will allow people to have a 'preview' into another Mansion or differ the order of the Mansions somewhat, I would like to read it and hear other posters ideas on it. Only when you've the time, though.
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« Reply #56 on: March 22, 2010, 02:43:42 PM »

I knew I was forgetting something! I meant to do it the other day and then had a fit of absent mindedness.

Let me add, that if after time passes and comments are done, anyone at all wants to post the next chapter you can do so!!

I just edit out the footnotes, and do a little formatting and correction to make it readable (thank you preview pane) and then post. Well, let me go get it ready!
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« Reply #57 on: March 22, 2010, 02:47:10 PM »

CHAPTER II.

CONTINUES THE SAME SUBJECT AND SPEAKS OF ARIDITIES IN PRAYER AND THEIR RESULTS: OF THE NECESSITY OF TRYING OURSELVES AND HOW OUR LORD PROVES THOSE WHO ARE IN THESE MANSIONS.

1. Imperfections of dwellers in the first three mansions. 2. Our trials show us our weakness. 3. Humility learnt by our faults. 4. Love of money. 5. Liberty of spirit. 6. On bearing contempt. 7. Detachment proved by trials. 8. Virtue and humility are the essentials. 9. Perfection requires detachment. 10. We should try to make rapid progress. 11. Leave our cares in God's hands. 12. Humility more necessary than corporal penances. 13. Consolations rarely received until the fourth mansions. 14. Advantages of hearing of them. 15. Perfection consists in love, not in reward. 16. St. Teresa's joy at seeing other souls favoured. 17. These graces should be striven for. 18. Obedience and direction, 19. Misguided zeal for others.

1. I HAVE known some, in fact, I may say numerous souls, who have reached this state, and for many years lived, apparently, a regular and well-ordered life, both of body and mind. It would seem that they must have gained the mastery over this world, or at least be extremely detached from it, yet if His Majesty sends very moderate trials they become so disturbed and disheartened as not only to astonish but to make me anxious about them. Advice is useless; having practised virtue for so long they think themselves capable of teaching it, and believe that they have abundant reason to feel miserable.

2. The only way to help them is to compassionate their troubles; indeed, one cannot but feel sorry at seeing people in such an unhappy state. They must not be argued with, for they are convinced they suffer only for God's sake, and cannot be made to understand they are acting imperfectly, which is a further error in persons so far advanced. No wonder that they should feel these trials for a time, but I think they ought speedily to overcome their concern about such matters. God, wishing His elect to realize their own misery, often temporarily withdraws His favours: no more is needed to prove to us in a very short time what we really are.

3. Souls soon learn in this way; they perceive their faults very clearly, and sometimes the discovery of how quickly they are overcome by but slight earthly trials is more painful than the subtraction of God's sensible favours. I consider that God thus shows them great mercy, for though their behaviour may be faulty, yet they gain greatly in humility. Not so with the people of whom I first spoke; they believe their conduct is saintly, and wish others to agree with them. I will give you some examples which will help us to understand and to try ourselves, without waiting for God to try us, since it would be far better to have prepared and examined ourselves beforehand.

4. A rich man, without son or heir, loses part of his property, but still has more than enough to keep himself and his household. If this misfortune grieves and disquiets him as though he were left to beg his bread, how can our Lord ask him to give up all things for His sake? This man will tell you he regrets losing his money because he wished to bestow it on the poor.

5. I believe His Majesty would prefer me to conform to His will, and keep peace of soul while attending to my interests, to such charity as this. If this person cannot resign himself because God has not raised him so high in virtue, well and good: let him know that he is wanting in liberty of spirit; let him beg our Lord to grant it him, and be rightly disposed to receive it. Another person has more than sufficient means to live on, when an opportunity occurs for acquiring more property: if it is offered him, by all means let him accept it; but if he must go out of his way to obtain it and then continues working to gain more and more--however good his intention may be (and it must be good, for I am speaking of people who lead prayerful and good lives), he cannot possibly enter the mansions near the King.

 6. Something of the same sort happens if such people meet with contempt or want of due respect. God often gives them grace to bear it well, as He loves to see virtue upheld in public, and will not have it condemned in those who practise it, or else because these persons have served Him faithfully, and He, our supreme Good, is exceedingly good to us all; nevertheless, these persons are disturbed, and cannot overcome or get rid of the feeling for some time. Alas! have they not long meditated on the pains our Lord endured and how well it is for us to suffer, and have even longed to do so? They wish every one were as virtuous as they are; and God grant they do not consider other people to blame for their troubles and attribute merit to themselves!

7. You may think, my daughters, that I have wandered from the subject, for all this does not concern you: nothing of the sort occurs to us here, where we neither own nor wish for any property, nor endeavour to gain it, and no one does us any wrong. The instances I have mentioned do not coincide exactly, yet conclusions applicable to us may be drawn from them, which it would be neither well nor necessary to state. These will teach you whether you are really detached from all you have left; trifling occasions often occur, although perhaps not quite of the same kind, by which you can prove to yourselves whether you have obtained the mastery over your passions.

8. Believe me, the question is not whether we wear the religious habit or not, but whether we practise the virtues and submit our will in all things to the will of God. The object of our life must be to do what He requires of us: let us not ask that our will may be done, but His. If we have not yet attained to this, let us be humble, as I said above. Humility is the ointment for our wounds; if we have it, although perhaps He may defer His coming for a time, God, Who is our Physician, will come and heal us.

9. The penances performed by the persons I spoke of are as well regulated as their life, which they value very highly because they wish to serve our Lord with it--in which there is nothing to blame--so they are very discreet in their mortifications lest they should injure their health. Never fear they will kill themselves: they are far too sensible! Their love is not strong enough to overcome their reason; I wish it were--that they might not be content to creep on their way to God: a pace that will never bring them to their journey's end!

10. We seem to ourselves to be making progress, yet we become weary, for, believe me, we are walking through a mist; it will be fortunate if we do not lose ourselves. Do you think, my daughters, if we could travel from one country to another in eight days, that it would be well to spend a year on the journey, through wind, snow, and inundations and over bad roads?  Would it not be better to get it over at once, for it is full of dangers and serpents? Oh, how many striking instances could I give you of this! God grant that I have passed beyond this state myself: often I think that I have not.

11. All things obstruct us while prudence rules our actions; we are afraid of everything and therefore fear to make progress--as if we could reach the inner chambers while others make the journey for us! As this is impossible, sisters, for the love of God let us exert ourselves, and leave our reason and our fears in His hands, paying no attention to the weaknesses of nature which might retard us. Let our Superiors, to whom the charge belongs, look after our bodies; let our only care be to hasten to our Lord's presence--for though there are few or no indulgences to be obtained here, yet, regard for health might mislead us and it would be none the better for our care, as I know well.

12. I know, too, that our bodies are not the chief factors in the work we have before us; they are accessory: extreme humility is the principal point. It is the want of this, I believe, that stops people's progress. It may seem that we have made but little way: we should believe that is the case, and that our sisters are advancing much more rapidly than we are. Not only should we wish others to consider us the worst of all; we should endeavour to make them think so. If we act in this manner, our soul will do well; otherwise we shall make no progress and shall always remain the prey to a thousand troubles and miseries. The way will be difficult and wearisome without self-renunciation, weighed down as we are by the burden and frailties of human nature, which are no longer felt in the more interior mansions.

13. In these third mansions the Lord never fails to repay our services, both as a just and even as a merciful God, Who always bestows on us far more than we deserve, giving us greater happiness than could be obtained from any earthly pleasures and amusements. I think He grants few consolations here, except, perhaps, occasionally to entice us to prepare ourselves to enter the last mansions by showing us their contents. There may appear to you to be no difference except in name between sensible devotion, and consolations and you may ask why I distinguish them. I think there is a very great difference, but I may be mistaken.

14. This will be best explained while writing of the fourth mansion, which comes next, when I must speak of the consolations received there from our Lord. The subject may appear futile, yet may prove useful by urging souls who know what each mansion contains to strive to enter the best. It will solace those whom God has advanced so far; others, who thought they had reached the summit, will be abashed, yet if they are humble they will be led to thank God.

15. Those who do not receive these consolations may feel a despondency that is uncalled for, since perfection does not consist in consolation but in greater love; our reward will be in proportion to this, and to the justice and sincerity of our actions. Perhaps you wonder, then, why I treat of these interior favours and their nature. I do not know; ask him who bade me write this. I must obey Superiors, not argue with them, which I have no right to do.

16. I assure you that when I had neither received these favours,  nor understood them by experience, or ever expected to (and rightly so, for I should have felt reassured if I had known or even conjectured that I was pleasing to God in any way), yet when I read of the mercies and consolations that our Lord grants to His servants, I was delighted and praised Him fervently. If such as myself acted thus, how much more would the humble and good glorify Him! I think it is worth while to explain these subjects and show what consolations and delights we lose through our own fault, if only for the sake of moving a single soul to praise God once.

17. When these joys are from God they come laden with love and strength, which aid the soul on its way and increase its good works and virtues. Do not imagine that it is unimportant whether you try to obtain these graces or no; if you are not to blame, the Lord is just: what He refuses in one way, His Majesty will give you in another, as He knows how; His secret ways are very mysterious, and doubtless He will do what is best for you.

18. Souls who by God's mercy are brought so far (which, as I said, is no small mercy, for they are likely to ascend still higher) will be greatly benefited by practising prompt obedience. Even if they are not in the religious state, it would be well if they, like certain other people, were to take a director, so as never to follow their own will, which is the cause of most of our ills. They should not choose one of their own turn of mind (as the saying goes), who is over prudent in his actions, but should select one thoroughly detached from worldly things; it is very helpful to consult a person who has learnt and can teach this. It is encouraging to see that trials which seemed to us impossible to submit to are possible to others, and that they bear them sweetly. Their flight makes us try to soar, like nestlings taught by the elder birds, who, though they cannot fly far at first, little by little imitate their parents: I know the great benefit of this. However determined such persons may be not to offend our Lord, they must not expose themselves to temptation: they are still near the first mansions to which they might easily return. Their strength is not yet established on a solid foundation like that of souls exercised in sufferings, who know how little cause there is to fear the tempests of this world and care nothing for its pleasures: beginners might succumb before any severe trial. Some great persecution, such as the devil knows how to raise to injure us, might make beginners turn back; while zealously trying to withdraw others from sin they might succumb to the attacks made upon them.

19. Let us look at our own faults, and not at other persons'. People who are extremely correct themselves are often shocked at everything they see; however, we might often learn a great deal that is essential from the very persons whom we censure. Our exterior comportment and manners may be better--this is well enough, but not of the first importance. We ought not to insist on every one following in our footsteps, nor to take upon ourselves to give instructions in spirituality when, perhaps, we do not even know what it is. Zeal for the good of souls, though given us by God, may often lead us astray, sisters; it is best to keep our rule, which bids us ever to live in silence and in hope. Our Lord will care for the souls belonging to Him; and if we beg His Majesty to do so, by His grace we shall be able to aid them greatly. May He be for ever blessed!
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Brigid
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« Reply #58 on: March 22, 2010, 06:27:45 PM »

Boy, I hope I'm not in too much of a pity-party! I do realize how much worse many, many people have it. (Have you seen those ads on TV from Children's Christian Fund - or something like that - that show little children so very hungry and in terrible living conditions?)

I'm wondering about her statement about "Zeal for the good of souls". What do you think she means by that statement in #19?
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Patricia
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« Reply #59 on: March 22, 2010, 10:48:27 PM »

Could it be our zeal to see some souls converted, when we ought to really leave it to God and His Way? That is how I look at it. It takes me back to our previous discussion maybe in a different thread about fraternal correction.
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Brigid
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« Reply #60 on: March 23, 2010, 01:13:53 AM »

Yeah, that's what I was thinking - about fraternal correction and using prayer and example.
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Therese
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« Reply #61 on: March 23, 2010, 09:01:56 AM »

In statement #19 about "zeal for the good of souls" St. Teresa mentions one teaching about spirituality to others when one doesn't know what it is...and also she mentions one expecting others to follow in ones footsteps.  We can do both these things when we feel zeal for the good of souls, but it is better if we don't and let God work in the lives of people through us in his own way.  That's how I understood St. Teresa's words.
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« Reply #62 on: March 23, 2010, 07:43:59 PM »

Yeah, His Will not ours be done.
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Therese
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« Reply #63 on: March 23, 2010, 08:09:43 PM »

Yeah, His Will not ours be done.

Yes, Brigid.
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