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Saints' Discussion Forums  |  Forums  |  Saints' & Spiritual Life General Discussion  |  Topic: Quote for the Day 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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Author Topic: Quote for the Day  (Read 706657 times)
Therese
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« Reply #1734 on: February 28, 2015, 06:11:33 PM »

Here is a challenging question for folks, what meanings do a staff and a rod have?

What are the deeper meanings behind each portion of Psalm 22?

Psalm 22

OUR Lord ruleth me, and nothing shall be wanting to me: in place of pasture there he hath placed me.
Upon the water of refection he hath brought me up: he hath converted my soul.
He hath conducted me upon the paths of justice, for his name.
For, although I shall walk in the midst of the shadow of death, I will not fear evils: because thou art with me.
Thy rod and thy staff: they have comforted me.
Thou hast prepared in my sight a table, against them; that trouble me.
Thou hast fatted my head with oil: and my chalice inebriating how goodly is it!
And thy mercy shall follow me all the days of my life:
And that I may dwell in the house of our Lord, in longitude of days.

It is my understanding that the rod and staff are what serve to direct and guide a sheep, the rod and staff being an instrument for guiding/directing, more than for hitting.  That arched part of the rod and staff is perfect for catching a sheep and redirecting it. 
« Last Edit: February 28, 2015, 06:29:01 PM by Therese » Logged

Seek ye therefore first the kingdom of God, and his justice, and all these things shall be added unto you (Matth. 6:33).
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« Reply #1735 on: February 28, 2015, 06:14:09 PM »

I'd like to read a good commentary on this passage.  I'll have to look for one.
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Seek ye therefore first the kingdom of God, and his justice, and all these things shall be added unto you (Matth. 6:33).
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« Reply #1736 on: February 28, 2015, 06:26:44 PM »

I just read the Haydock Commentary and it does a good job explaining this Psalm.  I recommend that our SDF members refer to it.
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Seek ye therefore first the kingdom of God, and his justice, and all these things shall be added unto you (Matth. 6:33).
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« Reply #1737 on: February 28, 2015, 06:48:22 PM »


It is my understanding that the rod and staff are what serve to direct and guide a sheep, the rod and staff being an instrument for guiding/directing, more than for hitting.  That arched part of the rod and staff is perfect for catching a sheep and redirecting it. 

And what is the difference between the rod and the staff do you think?
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'Flores apparuerunt in terra nostra. . . Fulcite me floribus. (The flowers appear on the earth. . . stay me up with flowers. Sg 2:12,5)
Therese
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« Reply #1738 on: February 28, 2015, 07:10:53 PM »


It is my understanding that the rod and staff are what serve to direct and guide a sheep, the rod and staff being an instrument for guiding/directing, more than for hitting.  That arched part of the rod and staff is perfect for catching a sheep and redirecting it. 

And what is the difference between the rod and the staff do you think?


According to the Haydock commentary they can be one and the same thing.  It is my understanding that they are one and the same.
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Seek ye therefore first the kingdom of God, and his justice, and all these things shall be added unto you (Matth. 6:33).
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« Reply #1739 on: February 28, 2015, 07:28:34 PM »


According to the Haydock commentary they can be one and the same thing.  It is my understanding that they are one and the same.

Is that so? What exactly does it say?
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'Flores apparuerunt in terra nostra. . . Fulcite me floribus. (The flowers appear on the earth. . . stay me up with flowers. Sg 2:12,5)
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« Reply #1740 on: February 28, 2015, 07:35:37 PM »


According to the Haydock commentary they can be one and the same thing.  It is my understanding that they are one and the same.

Is that so? What exactly does it say?

I'll cut and paste the relevant passage for you.
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Therese
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« Reply #1741 on: February 28, 2015, 07:39:57 PM »


According to the Haydock commentary they can be one and the same thing.  It is my understanding that they are one and the same.

Is that so? What exactly does it say?

"Ver. 4. Walk. In the greatest temptations, we may resist by God's grace. (Worthington) --- Midst. Hebrew, "in the valley." The greatest darkness, and the most horrible precipices, give no alarm to those who are under God's protection. --- Comforted me, as they have kept all enemies at a distance. The shepherd's staff or crook is designed for that purpose; and though it may be used to bring back the wandering sheep by beating them, yet it is not under that idea an object of consolation, but rather of terror. (Calmet) --- The effects of timely correction are, however, comfortable; and it is a great mercy of God to chastise the sinner, lest he should run astray to his eternal ruin. (Haydock) --- Some distinguish the rod from the staff, and say that the former is to punish, and the latter to support. (St. Jerome; Muis) --- We are generally too backward in having recourse to God in our distresses, though he invites us so pressingly, Isaias xli. 10, &c."

--Haydock Bible Commentary
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Seek ye therefore first the kingdom of God, and his justice, and all these things shall be added unto you (Matth. 6:33).
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« Reply #1742 on: February 28, 2015, 07:59:52 PM »

There we are, now I must say, saying they are one in the same seems wrong.

After all nothing in Holy Scripture is there to no purpose, and in the repetition different words are used.

Thy 'staff and thy staff'.. what is the point?
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'Flores apparuerunt in terra nostra. . . Fulcite me floribus. (The flowers appear on the earth. . . stay me up with flowers. Sg 2:12,5)
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« Reply #1743 on: February 28, 2015, 08:26:16 PM »

There we are, now I must say, saying they are one in the same seems wrong.

After all nothing in Holy Scripture is there to no purpose, and in the repetition different words are used.

Thy 'staff and thy staff'.. what is the point?


But as the commentary points out the rod is for the punishing and the staff is not.  One object can serve two purposes, thus the reference to two words.  The rod is for striking and the staff for comfort.  If you have a problem with this analysis, Shin, you should consult with a shepherd and ask him if both rod and staff refer to the same object.  I was told that they do.
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« Reply #1744 on: February 28, 2015, 08:42:50 PM »

I imagine that the bottom straight part of the shepherds staff is the rod used for striking and breaking the lambs legs, while the top part of the staff which is curved is used for catching the lamb and redirecting it.
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« Reply #1745 on: March 01, 2015, 03:06:06 AM »

Hmm, I hadn't thought of it that way.
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'Flores apparuerunt in terra nostra. . . Fulcite me floribus. (The flowers appear on the earth. . . stay me up with flowers. Sg 2:12,5)
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« Reply #1746 on: March 01, 2015, 03:06:35 AM »

'Again in Psalm 23 "the rod" is said to signify God's judgment and "the staff" His providence. So he who has received spiritual knowledge of these things is able to say, "Thy rod and Thy staff have comforted me."'

St. Maximos the Confessor
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'Flores apparuerunt in terra nostra. . . Fulcite me floribus. (The flowers appear on the earth. . . stay me up with flowers. Sg 2:12,5)
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« Reply #1747 on: March 01, 2015, 01:31:13 PM »

'Again in Psalm 23 "the rod" is said to signify God's judgment and "the staff" His providence. So he who has received spiritual knowledge of these things is able to say, "Thy rod and Thy staff have comforted me."'

St. Maximos the Confessor

The Good Shepherd uses His rod and staff to guide me to Heaven, thus, they are a great comfort to me.
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Seek ye therefore first the kingdom of God, and his justice, and all these things shall be added unto you (Matth. 6:33).
Shin
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« Reply #1748 on: March 01, 2015, 06:22:29 PM »

Here is a challenging question for folks, what meanings do a staff and a rod have?

What are the deeper meanings behind each portion of Psalm 22?

Psalm 22

OUR Lord ruleth me, and nothing shall be wanting to me: in place of pasture there he hath placed me.
Upon the water of refection he hath brought me up: he hath converted my soul.
He hath conducted me upon the paths of justice, for his name.
For, although I shall walk in the midst of the shadow of death, I will not fear evils: because thou art with me.
Thy rod and thy staff: they have comforted me.
Thou hast prepared in my sight a table, against them; that trouble me.
Thou hast fatted my head with oil: and my chalice inebriating how goodly is it!
And thy mercy shall follow me all the days of my life:
And that I may dwell in the house of our Lord, in longitude of days.


So we could say, the Lord's His Judgement and Providence are a great comfort. Cheesy

Anyone want to keep filling it out further?

Here's some more:

'In Psalm 23, "green pasture" represents the practice of the virtues; "water of refreshment", spiritual knowledge of created things.'

St. Maximos the Confessor

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'Flores apparuerunt in terra nostra. . . Fulcite me floribus. (The flowers appear on the earth. . . stay me up with flowers. Sg 2:12,5)
Therese
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« Reply #1749 on: March 01, 2015, 07:40:11 PM »

Here is a challenging question for folks, what meanings do a staff and a rod have?

What are the deeper meanings behind each portion of Psalm 22?

Psalm 22

OUR Lord ruleth me, and nothing shall be wanting to me: in place of pasture there he hath placed me.
Upon the water of refection he hath brought me up: he hath converted my soul.
He hath conducted me upon the paths of justice, for his name.
For, although I shall walk in the midst of the shadow of death, I will not fear evils: because thou art with me.
Thy rod and thy staff: they have comforted me.
Thou hast prepared in my sight a table, against them; that trouble me.
Thou hast fatted my head with oil: and my chalice inebriating how goodly is it!
And thy mercy shall follow me all the days of my life:
And that I may dwell in the house of our Lord, in longitude of days.


So we could say, the Lord's His Judgement and Providence are a great comfort. Cheesy

Anyone want to keep filling it out further?

Here's some more:

'In Psalm 23, "green pasture" represents the practice of the virtues; "water of refreshment", spiritual knowledge of created things.'

St. Maximos the Confessor



Yes, we can certainly say that, for His Judgment is most just/fair and always directs us toward Heaven, and His Providence is most mercifully loving and always directs us towards Heaven.  We can always count on the both of them to help us get to Heaven, thus, we can find comfort in them.  The most comforting books I have ever read are those written about our Lord's Divine Providence and those written about our merciful Mother who is our Advocate and Queen.  
« Last Edit: March 02, 2015, 07:17:29 AM by Therese » Logged

Seek ye therefore first the kingdom of God, and his justice, and all these things shall be added unto you (Matth. 6:33).
Therese
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« Reply #1750 on: March 05, 2015, 07:44:39 AM »

Q. If a person lived a decent, noble and moral life as judged by Catholic Faith beliefs and standards, yet was not a Christian or a Catholic and may, for the sake of discussion, be a non-believer, would this person be denied Heaven? A. To gain eternal salvation, it is not always required that a person be incorporated in fact as a member of the Church, but it is required that he belong to it at least in desire and longing [in voto]. It is not always necessary that this desire be explicit as it is with catechumens. When a man is invincibly ignorant, God also accepts an implicit desire, so called because it is contained in the good disposition of soul by which a man wants his will to be conformed to God's will.

--Letter of the Holy Office to the Archbishop of Boston, August 8, 1949
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Seek ye therefore first the kingdom of God, and his justice, and all these things shall be added unto you (Matth. 6:33).
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