Geocentrism: Faith vs. science

[Paul]

I didn't see a topic on geocentrism, so I thought I'd start one.

Geocentrism is the idea that everything in the universe revolves around the Earth once a day. Heliocentrism, which modern science claims, is the idea that the Earth moves around the sun once a year, with day and night explained by Earth's alleged rotation. Most Catholics don't know that the Bible and the Church Fathers teach geocentrism; in fact, they think the Church was wrong in ruling against Galileo teaching heliocentrism as fact, and that this is "proof" that faith has no competence in the area of the natural sciences. This may be why modern culture believes science over faith when the two conflict.

Heliocentrism has never been proven and cannot be proven or disproven without observing the Earth and the sun from a sufficient distance. Since the Bible and the Church have always taught geocentrism (as I will show), we should believe that rather than some theory of science. Popes Paul V, Urban VIII and Alexander VII all taught that heliocentrism is opposed to Sacred Scripture. Remember that the Catechism tells us that we should take Scripture literally unless reason tells us otherwise (e.g. "I am the vine, you are the branches" doesn't mean Jesus and the Apostles are a literal plant).

Because of this and the issue of evolution, I have stopped believing anything science says unless it can be verified by our faith. "Knowledge puffs up, but love builds up." St. Louis de Montfort says the same thing ("...human sciences only fill us with the wind and emptiness of pride") and points out that someone with no knowledge of the human sciences can be saved as long as he knows Christ.

Why does it matter? St. Robert Bellarmine answered that by telling us that the authority of Scripture is at stake: “Nor may it be answered that this is not a matter of faith...It would be just as heretical to deny that Abraham had two sons and Jacob twelve, as it would be to deny the virgin birth of Christ, for both are declared by the Holy Ghost through the mouths of the prophets and apostles.” If science would definitively disprove the geocentric theory, then, as he suggests, “it would be necessary to proceed with great caution in explaining the passages of Scripture which seemed contrary, and we would rather have to say that we did not understand them than to say that something was false which has been demonstrated."

Why would he say that? I'll show you.

The Earth does not move:

1 Chron. 16:30 “yea, the world stands firm, never to be moved.”
Psalm 93:1, 96:10 “Yea, the world is established; it shall never be moved.”

Many more verses suggest, but do not prove, a stationary Earth, such as the ones describing the foundations of the Earth, the phrase "Heaven and Earth," and the fact that the sun, moon, and stars were created for Earth.

The sun, moon, and stars move:

Joshua 10:12-14 “Then spoke Joshua to the Lord in the day when the Lord gave the Amorites over to the men of Israel; and he said in the sight of Israel, ‘Sun, stand thou still at Gibeon, and thou Moon in the valley of Aijalon.’  And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the nation took vengeance on their enemies.  Is this not written in the Book of Jashar?  The sun stayed in the midst of heaven, and did not hasten to go down for about a whole day.  There has been no day like it before or since, when the Lord hearkened to the voice of a man; for the Lord fought for Israel.”

Sir. 46:4 “Was not the sun held back by his hand? And did not one day become as long as two?”

(What is interesting is that indigenous peoples of the Americas and West Africa talk of a long night, but not a long day. The Chinese and Egyptians talk about a long day dating to the same time as the Battle of Jericho.)

2 Kings 20:11 “And Isaiah the prophet cried to the Lord; and he brought the shadow back ten steps, by which the sun had declined on the dial of Ahaz.”

Isaiah 38:7-8 “This is the sign to you from the Lord, that the Lord will do this thing that he has promised: Behold, I will make the shadow cast by the declining sun on the dial of Ahaz turn back ten steps.  So the sun turned back on the dial the ten steps by which it had declined.”

(Indian and Chinese histories talk about the sun having set and come back up around the same time, while indigenous Americans talk about the sun having risen and then set. Greek mythology also mentions this miracle.)

1 Esdras 4:34 “The earth is vast, and heaven is high, and the sun is swift in its course, for it makes the circuit of the heavens and returns to its place in one day.”

Psalm 19:5-6 “In them he has set a tent for the sun, which comes forth like a bridgegroom leaving his chamber, and like a strong man runs its course with joy.  Its rising is from the end of the heavens, and its circuit to the end of them; and there is nothing hid from its heat.”

Psalm 104:19 “Thou hast made the moon to mark the seasons; the sun knows its time for setting.”

Eccles. 1:5 “The sun rises and the sun goes down, and hastens to the place where it rises.”

Many more verses mention the sun rising and setting.

If everything in the universe moves except the Earth, the obvious conclusion is geocentrism.

To show that this is not just my personal interpretation of the Bible, I will bring in quotes from the Church Fathers:

Ambrose: But they say that the sun can be said to be alone, because there is no second sun. But the sun himself has many things in common with the stars, for he travels across the heavens...(Exposition of the Christian Faith, Bk V, Ch II)

Anatolius of Alexandria: Anaximander discovered that the earth is poised in space, and moves round the axis of the universe... We may instance the facts--that the fixed stars move round the axis passing through the poles, while the planets remove from each other round the perpendicular axis of the zodiac; and that the axis of the fixed stars and the planets is the side of a pente-decagon with four-and-twenty parts. (XVII)

Athenagoras: ...who stretched out and vaulted the heavens, and fixed the earth in its place like a center (Why the Christians do not Offer Sacrifices, Ch XIII)

Augustine: Let not the philosophers, then, think to upset our faith with arguments from the weight of bodies; for I don't care to inquire why they cannot believe an earthly body can be in heaven, while the whole earth is suspended on nothing. For perhaps the world keeps its central place by the same law that attracts to its center all heavy bodies. (City of God, Bk XIII, Ch 18)

Gregory of Nyssa: “...the vault of heaven prolongs itself so uninterruptedly that it encircles all things with itself, and that the earth and its surroundings are poised in the middle, and that the motion of all the revolving bodies is round this fixed and solid center..." (On the Soul and Resurrection)

Irenaeus: The sun also, who runs through his orbit in twelve months, and then returns to the same point in the circle... (Against Heresies, Bk I, Ch XVII, 1)

There are many more of these, but I chose the ones that say it the most clearly. To include more would have been redundant, since all the others say the same thing. These quotes all come from the book Galileo Was Wrong by Robert Sungenis and Robert Bennett. None of the Church Fathers have ever believed in heliocentrism, in spite of their knowledge that the concept existed.

Even before reading any of these, I reasoned that geocentrism was more likely to be true, since heliocentrism requires that we believe an authority that is not from the Church.

[susanna]

Well this is so very interesting Paul.  I also don't believe in science wholeheartedly any more.  I say wholeheartedly because it saved my life as a child when it gave us penicillin.  I will have to read this again a couple of times before it all sinks in, but I do like the idea of all the universe(s) moving around the earth.  Thanks. 

[Paul]

Well this is so very interesting Paul.  I also don't believe in science wholeheartedly any more.  I say wholeheartedly because it saved my life as a child when it gave us penicillin.  I will have to read this again a couple of times before it all sinks in, but I do like the idea of all the universe(s) moving around the earth.  Thanks. 

I'm glad you like it.

You bring up another interesting topic. You say science saved your life. But it was God who saved your life. Remember, God alone decides when each person will die. Have you read Trustful Surrender to Divine Providence by St. Claude de la Colombiere? The author talks about how everything that happens, good or bad (except for sin) is God's will. Using your case as an example, since God wanted you to live, He saved your life, and penicillin was just what He used to accomplish this. If there were no penicillin, He would have found another way. Conversely, if God had decided, for whatever reason, that your life should end at that point, no medicine would have worked.

Science gets all the credit, which should go to God.

[Shin]

I have a DVD on this subject but sad to say I haven't sat down and read through the texts on it.

 

[susanna]

Well this is so very interesting Paul.  I also don't believe in science wholeheartedly any more.  I say wholeheartedly because it saved my life as a child when it gave us penicillin.  I will have to read this again a couple of times before it all sinks in, but I do like the idea of all the universe(s) moving around the earth.  Thanks. 

I'm glad you like it.

You bring up another interesting topic. You say science saved your life. But it was God who saved your life. Remember, God alone decides when each person will die. Have you read Trustful Surrender to Divine Providence by St. Claude de la Colombiere? The author talks about how everything that happens, good or bad (except for sin) is God's will. Using your case as an example, since God wanted you to live, He saved your life, and penicillin was just what He used to accomplish this. If there were no penicillin, He would have found another way. Conversely, if God had decided, for whatever reason, that your life should end at that point, no medicine would have worked.

Science gets all the credit, which should go to God.

Thank you Paul.  I can't believe I said science saved me.   

[Paul]

It's such an easy mistake to make in our culture that will believe anything the false religion that is science tells it.

[Shin]

Thanks be to God from whom all blessings flow for all His gifts to us great and small. 

[susanna]

Paul, when I was reading Bethlehemstar.com, the author said that one thing that caused the brightness over Bethlehem at Christmas was the retrograde motion of Jupiter, as I recall.  It was easy for me to imagine God's hand just moving the planets and stars to the position over earth where he wanted them.  I sometimes think the entire universe is God is Himself - since he is everywhere, in Him we live and move and have our being, He knows the number of hairs on our heads.  Anyway, doesn't science say that it's the solar system that revolves around the sun, not the universe?  Also, doesn't NASA have satellites that see the motion of the sun and Earth?  (Solar Dynamics Observatory, SOHO).  I really don't know if they prove anything, but it's interesting, or maybe I've watched too much Star Trek.     

[Brigid]

Susanna, I also imagine God moving the planets in order that they appear a certain way for those on earth.

[Paul]

Paul, when I was reading Bethlehemstar.com, the author said that one thing that caused the brightness over Bethlehem at Christmas was the retrograde motion of Jupiter, as I recall.

I think the star of Bethlehem was a star that God stopped in the sky just like He stopped the sun in the sky at Jericho.

I sometimes think the entire universe is God is Himself - since he is everywhere, in Him we live and move and have our being, He knows the number of hairs on our heads.

God is independent of His creation. The idea that the universe is God is the heresy of pantheism.

Anyway, doesn't science say that it's the solar system that revolves around the sun, not the universe?  Also, doesn't NASA have satellites that see the motion of the sun and Earth?  (Solar Dynamics Observatory, SOHO).  I really don't know if they prove anything, but it's interesting, or maybe I've watched too much Star Trek.     

I believe in science when it agrees with the Bible, and I don't believe in it when it disagrees with the Bible. If science says the Earth is billions of years old, then it contradicts the Biblical genealogies, and so it cannot be believed. If science were to "prove" heliocentrism, I would still not believe it, because it contradicts the Bible.

Satellites move around the Earth, so they can't track the alleged motion of the Earth.

[Shin]

Paul when you cited St. Claude earlier you sounded like one of the Desert Father's apothegms on medicine I read not too long ago. I hope I come across it again.

They make good reading to pass the time because they make you think with just a few words. 

[Stella Matutina]

Thank you so much for posting this, Paul. I have been trying to find more information on this issue, and your post explained it perfectly.

[Paul]

I'm so glad I could help! This knowledge really needs to be spread among Catholics.