Excerpts from Mystical City of God by Ven. Mary of Agreda

[Shin]

For what little it's worth --

I could take the 'never' as perhaps in its strictest form aimed at Ven. Mary, but for us in the context of St. Philip Neri's quote.

From the beginning I tended towards taking it as a general never not an all exclusive never, 'commandment'.


 

[Shin]

Oblige the Lord to do it by confiding in his love.

 

Thank you again for finding it again!

[Therese]

From the beginning I tended towards taking it as a general never not an all exclusive never, 'commandment'.


 

This was very wise of you.  Thanks so much for your help with this quote, Shin!!

[Therese]

Oblige the Lord to do it by confiding in his love.

 

Thank you again for finding it again!

You are most welcome!

[Therese]

395. Let it therefore be to thee as a rule always to be followed that thou reveal nothing to any one except to thy spiritual guide, unless I command otherwise.

Does this mean that we shouldn't discuss our spiritual life with others, Shin?

[Therese]

'The denial of Peter caused our Lord greater pain to the Lord than the buffet which He had received; for this sin was directly opposed and abhorrent to his immense charity, while pains and sufferings were sweet and welcome to Him, since He could thereby atone for our sins.'

Ven. Mary of Agreda, Mystical City of God, Vol. III, 553

[Shin]

395. Let it therefore be to thee as a rule always to be followed that thou reveal nothing to any one except to thy spiritual guide, unless I command otherwise.

Does this mean that we shouldn't discuss our spiritual life with others, Shin?

Let's see what was said earlier again. . .

My daughter, the example of my silence, which thou hast been writing about, should teach thee to use it as a guide in thy treatment of the favors and sacraments of the Lord, namely that thou keep them concealed within thy heart. Although it might at times seem useful to reveal them for the consolation of some soul, thou must not act upon this opinion without having first consulted God in prayer, and then thy superiors. For these spiritual matters must not be made dependent upon human feeling, which are so much subject to the passions and inclinations of nature. There is always great danger of considering that to be an advantage which is harmful, and a service to God, what is injurious. It is not given to eyes of the flesh and blood (I Cor. 2, 14) to discern the interior movements, so as to decide which of them are divine and caused by grace, or which are human, engendered by the disorderly affections. Although there is great difference between these two kinds of affections and their causes, nevertheless, if the creature is not highly enlightened and dead to its passions, it can not recognize this difference, nor separate the precious from the vile (Jer. 15, 19). This danger is greater when some temporal or human motive is mixed up with or underlies our actions ; for then our natural selflove is wont to creep in and take away discretion and supervision of heavenly and spiritual things, leading on to many sudden and dangerous falls.

Let it therefore be to thee as a rule always to be followed that thou reveal nothing to any one except to thy spiritual guide, unless I command otherwise. Since I have constituted myself thy Teacher, I will not fail to give thee advice and direction in this and in all other things, lest thou stray from the path appointed to thee by the will of my most holy Son. Yet I admonish thee to appreciate highly all the favors and revelations of the Most High. Preserve them with a magnanimous heart; esteem them, give thanks for them, and put them to practice in preference to anything else, especially in preference to anything originating from thy own inclinations. The reverential fear of God bound me to silence, having (as was proper) such a high regard for the Treasure deposited in me. Notwithstanding the natural feeling of love and obligation toward my master and spouse saint Joseph, and in disregard of the sorrow and compassion for his afflictions, of which I so desired to free him, I hid the secret of my state in silence, preferring the pleasure of the Lord to all these, and leaving to Him the defense of my cause.

[Therese]

'When the Lord was bound with the chains and ropes, She [Blessed Mary] felt on her wrists such pains, that the blood oozed from her fingernails, as if they had really been bound and crushed:  in the same manner the other wounds affected her body.  As to these tortures were added the sorrows of her heart in seeing Christ our Lord suffer, She shed miraculous tears of blood.'

Ven. Mary of Agreda, Mystical City of God, Vol. III, 553

[Therese]

So Ven. Mary of Jesus was told not to reveal the favors and sacraments of the Lord to others, right, Shin?   As far as favors are concerned, I don't think it is normally a good idea to speak of one's favors received from the Lord.  The part about not revealing the sacraments (revelations) of the Lord is a little more difficult for me to understand, as I thought that it is a good thing to share them with others ... this is why I post these passages. 

[Therese]

"I tell thee truly, my dearest, only my intercession and the merits of his Son, which I offer to the eternal Father, can delay the punishment and placate his wrath, can retard the destruction of the world and the severe chastisement of the children of the Church, who know his will and fail to fulfil it (John, 15, 15).  But I am much incensed to find so few who condole with me and try to console my Son in his sorrows, as David says (Ps. 68, 21).  This hardness of heart will cause great confusion to them on the day of judgment; since they will then see with irreparable sorrow, not only that they were ungrateful, but inhuman and cruel toward my divine Son, toward me and toward themselves.'

Our Lady to Ven. Mary of Agreda, Mystical City of God, Vol. III, 554

 

[Shin]

395. Let it therefore be to thee as a rule always to be followed that thou reveal nothing to any one except to thy spiritual guide, unless I command otherwise.

Does this mean that we shouldn't discuss our spiritual life with others, Shin?

I don't really understand how to weigh all the factors in the matter.. so I hesitate to speak..

No, I would not think that. I would think that we have to practice carefulness and pray about it, to see whether it will be truly for the good and proceed from right motives. As Our Lady says it is very difficult to separate the affections and their causes.. when I think of how much time I try to discern the source and purify my interior life, feelings and motivations.. sigh..

For what little it's worth -- Since she spoke of consulting superiors if we were to as laity consider that if the matter is serious enough that we think there could be consequences for us if we spoke of it -- we could consult with our spiritual director before discussing it with others, but for lighter things I do not think that would be necessary unless we had a bad habit of garrulousness.. I am the opposite, perhaps too quiet more often, though I can be too talkative.. so it's hard to judge.. so too we are not receiving revelations and such like Ven. Mary.. and too it depends on how reliable the person we are speaking to is in spiritual conversation. Is the person a spiritual friend who has shown to be a benefit to speak to? Is the person a spiritual friend whom natural feelings are a danger with on the other hand?

And too Ven. Mary's circumstances were special as her spiritual favors were such miracles as we see.  

I don't fully understand this matter. Sometimes it benefits people to tell them of spiritual things, and spiritual conversation generally speaking is what is the conversation of the people of God. A person's spiritual virtues cannot help but come forth in how the person speaks and acts and what the person chooses to discuss. Sometimes we speak of God's gifts to help others to appreciate Him and give Him thanks, sometimes we hide them, lest we lose them, or lose treasure in Heaven by them being misappropriated to us, or sinful vanity, vainglory, etc. which are poison.

[Therese]

"Who pardons an insult for the sake of imitating Him?  Just the contrary is set up as law in this world, not only by the infidels, but by the very children of the faith and of light.'

Our Lady to Ven. Mary of Agreda, Mystical City of God, Vol. III, 555

[Shin]

I think the thing to avoid is 'I' centeredness..

And to have prudence and reserve about some kinds of things in the interior life more than others. A person knows what temptations a person receives.. it's hard to put it into words.. If could see it I would be more able to say, 'This person is talking and revealing too much', or 'This person is saying something helpful for everyone, I am grateful it was revealed'..  or 'This person needs help with this and so brought it up out of necessity..' or 'This is the sort of thing that is not to be spoken of in public but only privately.'

[Shin]

Of course whether I would be right to think those judgements would be another matter too. 

[Therese]

I think the thing to avoid is 'I' centeredness..

And to have prudence and reserve about some kinds of things in the interior life more than others. A person knows what temptations a person receives.. it's hard to put it into words.. If could see it I would be more able to say, 'This person is talking and revealing too much', or 'This person is saying something helpful for everyone, I am grateful it was revealed'..  or 'This person needs help with this and so brought it up out of necessity..' or 'This is the sort of thing that is not to be spoken of in public but only privately.'

Yes, Shin.  Self-love and pride can get mixed in when we speak of our favors received from God.  What bad can happen when we reveal the sacraments/revelations of God?  All I can think of is that others might not be ready for them and might be irreverent towards them.  What do you think?

[Therese]

'I remind thee, that there is no exercise more profitable and useful for the soul than to suffer: for suffering gives light, undeceives, detaches the heart from visible things and raises it up to the Lord.  He will come to meet those in suffering, because He is with the afflicted and sends them his protection and help (Ps. 40, 15).

Our Lady to Ven. Mary of Agreda, Mystical City of God, Vol. III, 556