Excerpts from Mystical City of God by Ven. Mary of Agreda

[Shin]

I think this particular quote is going to be of great help to me. I am going to meditate on it a lot.

[Therese]

I think this particular quote is going to be of great help to me. I am going to meditate on it a lot.

Let us follow our Lady's instruction, which will lead us to Heaven.

[Therese]

There was an excerpt about never defending oneself a few pages back that I'd like to comment on.  I need to retract some of my words about that post, as I had not considered that our Lady's words were a propos to Ven. Mary of Agreda whose life would be free from certain circumstances like scandal.  When our Lady told her NEVER to defend herself she meant it to Ven. Mary of Agreda; but seeing the Church teaches that in certain circumstances the more perfect thing to do is to defend oneself--and seeing we live in the ugly world where we sometimes need to defend ourselves in order to avoid scandal and keep another soul from sinning, etc. (a circumstance the Church speaks of)--I believe our Lady must want us to follow the Church's counsel and always do the more perfect thing, like defending oneself to avoid some scandal in order to keep another soul from sinning.

Your feedback, friends, would be most welcome.

[Therese]

'[After the flight of the Apostles from the Garden of Gethsemane] She [Mary] by Herself alone then constituted the entire Church, because She alone preserved full faith, hope and love, complete worship and adoration for the great object of our faith, not only supplying her full share for Herself, but for the Apostles and for the whole human race.'

Ven. Mary of Agreda, Mystical City of God, Vol. III, 534

[Therese]

'The body [of Judas] remained hanging by the neck for three days, exposed to the view of the public.  During that time the Jews attempted to take it down from the tree and to bury it in secret, for it was a sight apt to cause great confusion to the pharisees and priests, who could not refute such a testimony of his wickedness.  But no efforts of theirs sufficed to drag or separate the body from its position on the tree until three days had passed, when, according to the dispensation of divine justice, the demons themselves snatched the body from the tree and brought it to its soul, in order that both might suffer eternal punishment in the profoundest abyss of hell.'

Ven. Mary of Agreda, Mystical City of God, Vol. III, 538

[Therese]

'The secret of it was, that this cavern of greater torments and fiercer fires of hell, from the creation of the world, had been destined for those, who, after having received Baptism, would damn themselves by the neglect of the Sacraments, the doctrines, the Passion and Death of the Savior, and the intercession of his holy Mother.  As Judas had been the first one who had so signally participated in these blessings, and as he had so fearfully misused them, he was also the first to suffer the torments of this place, prepared for him and his imitators and followers.'

Ven. Mary of Agreda, Mystical City of God, Vol. III, 538

[Therese]

'Whenever they [the demons] incited the executioners to inflict tortures unbecoming his royal and divine Person, the Lord would not permit such indignities farther than was becoming, while He gave free scope to their inhuman barbarities and savage fury in all the rest.'

Ven. Mary of Agreda, Mystical City of God, Vol. III, 541

[Therese]

'They were Apostles chosen by their divine Master, their true God; yet one of them fell lower than any other individual of the human race; and the others failed in faith, the foundation of all virtue.  Yet all this was conformable to the just judgments of the Most High.  Why then should those who are not Apostles, be without fear, who have not so labored in the school of Christ and who have not so merited my intercession?'

Our Lady to Ven. Mary of Agreda, Mystical City of God, Vol. III, 542

[Therese]

'The mistake of not having recognized Christ as the true God causes the deepest and most tormenting regret to Lucifer and his evil spirits for all eternity.  Hence, on account of this error, they are filled with special wrath against those who were redeemed, particularly against the Christians, who derived the greatest benefits from the Redemption and the blood of the Lamb.  That is why the devils are so eager to cause forgetfulness and misuse of these graces in them and why afterwards in hell, they are permitted to vent so much the greater fury and wrath upon the wicked Christians.'

Our Lady to Ven. Mary of Agreda, Mystical City of God, Vol. III, 543

[Therese]

'Clearly I desire thee to forget and blot out of thy faculties all images and remembrances of mere creatures in order that thou mayest be fit to receive my salutary teaching and be capable of imitating me.'

Our Lady to Ven. Mary of Agreda, Mystical City of God, Vol. III, 544

[whiterockdove]

Thanks for all the posts, Therese, I'm following along, just taking it all in!

[Therese]

I will stop posting excerpts on this thread until I get some help with this post.  Please, please help me with the following:


There was an excerpt about never defending oneself a few pages back that I'd like to comment on.  I need to retract some of my words about that post, as I had not considered that our Lady's words were specifically a propos to Ven. Mary of Agreda whose life would be free from certain circumstances like scandal.  When our Lady told her NEVER to defend herself she meant it to Ven. Mary of Agreda; but seeing the Church teaches that in certain circumstances the more perfect thing to do is to defend oneself--and seeing we live in the ugly world where we sometimes need to defend ourselves in order to avoid scandal and keep another soul from sinning, etc. (a circumstance the Church speaks of)--I believe our Lady must want us to follow the Church's counsel and always do the more perfect thing, like defending oneself to avoid some scandal in order to keep another soul from sinning.

Does this sound right?  

[Shin]

Are you talking about this extract Therese? Which one?

"During our mortal life the Lord is very slow in visiting vengeance upon us; but He will make up for his slowness in the severity of his punishments after death.  If then God suffers and bears with us so much, how much must one poor worm of the earth bear with another, since both are of the same nature and condition?  By the light of this truth and by the charity of the Lord and Spouse, thou must regulate the amount of thy patience and longsuffering with others and the zeal for their salvation.  I do not say that thou must therefore permit what is against the honor of God, for that would not be a true zeal for the good of thy neighbor; but thou must love them as creatures of the Lord and abhor sin; thou must suffer and ignore whatever is done against thee, always seeing, as far as in thee lies, the salvation of others.  Do not lose heart, when thou seest no immediate fruit, but continue to present to the eternal Father the merits of my most holy Son, my intercession and that of the saints and angels; for as God is charity and as they are the ministers of the Most High, they will gladly make use of this same charity for the benefit of those who are still on their pilgrimage.'

Our Lady to Ven. Mary of Agreda, Mystical City of God, Vol. III, 403

I was looking for another quote from the saints earlier to help but had to take a break and hadn't gotten back to it.

FWIW. One of the things a person who grows in virtue has to learn is how to weave the virtues together and how to aim for the greatest good.

So that sometimes the greatest good is not defending oneself and sometimes one has to defend, i.e. because if one did not defend some harm would come that would outweigh the good of not doing so. So the thing to do is to have the virtues of mind to see which is the proper course.

I think a key would be if one has a reflexive habit of self defense without consideration, if one's motivation is self centered, that would be a bad habit to be fixed preventing one from following a path of heroic virtue of suffering silently with Our Lord or a path of heroic self sacrifice.

'He who really wishes to become a saint must never defend himself, except in a few rare cases, but always acknowledge himself in fault, even when what is alleged against him is untrue.'

St. Philip Neri

'The love of Christ arouses us, urges us to run, and to fly lifted on the wings of holy zeal . . . The man who burns with the fire of divine love is a son of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, and wherever he goes, he enkindles that flame; he desires and works with all his strength to inflame all men with the fire of God's love. Nothing deters him: he rejoices in poverty; he labors strenuously; he welcomes hardships; he laughs off false accusations; he rejoices in anguish. He thinks only of how he might follow Jesus Christ and imitate Him by his prayers, his labors, his sufferings, and by caring always and only for the glory of God and the salvation of souls.'

St. Anthony Mary Claret

[Therese]

No that is not the quote, Shin.  The quote is one of Mary saying that we should NEVER defend ourselves.  But what St. Philip Neri says is what I've been taught by the Church and the Saints.  I'll try to find the quote for you.  Please tell me why you think Mary used the word NEVER.  Was it because she was talking specifically to Ven. Mary of Jesus and in her circumstances at the convent and not to all of us?   God bless you!

[Therese]

Here is the post in question, Shin:

'Learn also from this never to defend thyself against accusations, no matter how innocent thou mayest be.  Oblige the Lord to do it by confiding in his love.  Charge thy reputation to this account; and in the meanwhile overcome by patience and humility, by sweet and kind words, those who have offended thee.  Above all things, I admonish thee never to judge evil of anyone, even if thou seest with thy own eyes the outward warrants of thy judgment; for perfect and sincere charity will teach thee to find a prudent evasion and excuse for all faults of thy neighbor....For in law of discreet and holy charity it must be held as prudence, not temerity, to suspect higher causes, as yet unseen, rather than to judge and condemn our neighbors for faults in which his guilt is clearly not evident.'

Our Lady to Ven. Mary of Agreda, City of God, Vol. II, 396

Why does Mary use the word never, Shin?  Is it because she is talking exclusively to Ven. Mary of Jesus in her circumstances at the convent and not to us all?

[Shin]

Ah-ha, thank you Therese. I had a recollection of it, but couldn't find it -- so it was back in the previous volume.

Let's take out the whole passage:

395. Let it therefore be to thee as a rule always to be followed that thou reveal nothing to any one except to thy spiritual guide, unless I command otherwise. Since I have constituted myself thy Teacher, I will not fail to give thee advice and direction in this and in all other things, lest thou stray from the path appointed to thee by the will of my most holy Son. Yet I admonish thee to appreciate highly all the favors and revelations of the Most High. Preserve them with a magnanimous heart; esteem them, give thanks for them, and put them to practice in preference to anything else, especially in preference to anything originating from thy own inclinations.

The reverential fear of God bound me to silence, having (as was proper) such a high regard for the Treasure deposited in me. Notwithstanding the natural feeling of love and obligation toward my master and spouse saint Joseph, and in disregard of the sorrow and compassion for his afflictions, of which I so desired to free him, I hid the secret of my state in silence, preferring the pleasure of the Lord to all these, and leaving to Him the defense of my cause. Learn also from this never to defend thyself against accusations, no matter how innocent thou mayest be. Oblige the Lord to do it by confiding in his love. Charge thy reputation to his account; and in the meanwhile overcome by patience and humility, by sweet and kind words, those who have offended thee.

Above all things I admonish thee never to judge evil of any one, even if thou seest with thy own eyes the outward warrants of thy judgment; for perfect and sincere charity will teach thee to find a prudent evasion and excuse for all faults of thy neighbor. God has placed my spouse, saint Joseph, as a shining example for such a
course of action, since no one had more evident proofs of evil, and no one was more discreet in deferring his judgment. For in the law of discreet and holy charity it must be held as prudence, not temerity, to suspect higher causes, as yet unseen, rather than to judge and condemn our neighbors for faults in which his guilt is not clearly evident. I do not give thee special instructions for those that are in the state of matrimony, since they can derive them manifestly from the whole course of my life. But from the above instruction all can profit, although just now I have in view thy own advancement, because I desire it with especial love. Hear me, daughter, and fulfill my counsels and follow these my words of eternal life.

396. Let it therefore be to thee as a rule always to be followed that thou reveal nothing to any one except to thy spiritual guide, unless I command otherwise. Since I have constituted myself thy Teacher, I will not fail to give thee advice and direction in this and in all other things, lest thou stray from the path appointed to thee by the will of my most holy Son. Yet I admonish thee to appreciate highly all the favors and revelations of the Most High. Preserve them with a magnanimous heart ; esteem them, give thanks for them, and put them to practice in preference to anything else, especially in preference to anything originating from thy own inclinations. The reverential fear of God bound me to silence, having (as was proper) such a high regard for the Treasure deposited in me. Notwithstanding the natural feeling of love and obligation toward my master and spouse saint Joseph, and in disregard of the sorrow and compassion for his afflictions, of which I so desired to free him, I hid the secret of my state in silence, preferring the pleasure of the Lord to all these, and leaving to Him the defense of my cause. Learn also from this never to defend thyself against accusations, no matter how innocent thou mayest be. Oblige the Lord to do it by confiding in his love. Charge thy reputation to his account; and in the meanwhile overcome by patience and humility, by sweet and kind words, those who have offended thee. Above all things I admonish thee never to judge evil of any one, even if thou seest with thy own eyes the out ward warrants of thy judgment; for perfect and sincere charity will teach thee to find a prudent evasion and excuse for all faults of thy neighbor. God has placed my spouse, saint Joseph, as a shining example for such a course of action, since no one had more evident proofs of evil, and no one was more discreet in deferring his judgment. For in the law of discreet and holy charity it must be held as prudence, not temerity, to suspect higher causes, as yet unseen, rather than to judge and condemn our neighbors for faults in which his guilt is not clearly evident. I do not give thee special instructions for those that are in the state of matrimony, since they can derive them manifestly from the whole course of my life. But from the above instruction all can profit, although just now I have in view thy own advancement, because I desire it with especial love. Hear me, daughter, and fulfill my counsels and follow these my words of eternal life.

[editing: to include all passages]