Excerpts from Mystical City of God by Ven. Mary of Agreda

[Therese]

Of course whether I would be right to think those judgements would be another matter too. 

Yes, of course.

[Shin]

I'm grateful you asked these questions and brought up these passages again as they are quite helpful to me.. I see I have been trying to use natural means to sort out the supernatural and preternatural rather than relying on God and the spiritual...

Well, when you ask that.. what harm, it makes me think of the 'discipline of the secret' from early Christianity.. do your recall hearing of this?

Yes irreverence as you said:  "Give not that which holy to dogs; neither cast your pearls before swine; lest perhaps they trample them under their feet, and turning upon you, they tear you" (Matthew 7:6)

It reminds me of the hidden natural of the proverbs of Our Lord.. and indeed the way everything is hidden in Holy Scripture to a certain degree.. so that those who are not virtuous or given the spiritual help to, will often take matters incorrectly.. or.. like you posted earlier.. ah wait.. I forget what it was.. Had a moment there where I had something and it just disappeared.

There was also a quote once I read about why God hid matters in the proverbs.. irreverence yes.. perhaps simply lack of deserving of such knowledge I think..

[Therese]

"I tell thee truly, my dearest, only my intercession and the merits of his Son, which I offer to the eternal Father, can delay the punishment and placate his wrath, can retard the destruction of the world and the severe chastisement of the children of the Church, who know his will and fail to fulfil it (John, 15, 15).  But I am much incensed to find so few who condole with me and try to console my Son in his sorrows, as David says (Ps. 68, 21).  This hardness of heart will cause great confusion to them on the day of judgment; since they will then see with irreparable sorrow, not only that they were ungrateful, but inhuman and cruel toward my divine Son, toward me and toward themselves.'

Our Lady to Ven. Mary of Agreda, Mystical City of God, Vol. III, 554

 

It would take a whole lot to incense the Mother of Mercy, but men have incensed her.

[Shin]

The black Madonna!

Ah how I love those intricate shrines full of relics and discarded crutches and incensed to blackness!

[Therese]

There was also a quote once I read about why God hid matters in the proverbs.. irreverence yes.. perhaps simply lack of deserving of such knowledge I think..

Yes, that sounds right.  "That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand: lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them" (Mark 4:12).

[Therese]

The black Madonna!

Ah how I love those intricate shrines full of relics and discarded crutches and incensed to blackness!

No, Shin, the incense that is being referred to here in reference to our Lady is a feeling of or showing of anger, not the sweet smelling incense that you are thinking of.  It is being beyond mad.

[Shin]

Ah I misread it. Thank you Therese. I was thinking of the incense of prayers and intercession.

[Shin]

Have a good afternoon Therese! 

[Therese]

Have a good afternoon Therese! 

And you have a good evening, Shin!  Take a good rest after your busy labors and enjoy the cooler evening temperatures in your nice backyard.

[Therese]

Ah I misread it. Thank you Therese. I was thinking of the incense of prayers and intercession.

Is incense really the reason the Black Madonna is black, Shin?  I never knew this.

[Shin]

Ah I misread it. Thank you Therese. I was thinking of the incense of prayers and intercession.

Is incense really the reason the Black Madonna is black, Shin?  I never knew this.

I think that might be the case, but I am not certain. It could be originally so, it could also be due to Canticle of Canticles 1:5.

'I am black but beautiful, o ye daughters of Jerusalem, as the tabernacles of Cedar, as the skins of Salomon.'

Let me see if I can find out some more info. Oh, here is a description from one source I just briefly looked up online:

Monastery of Jasna Gora, Czestochowa, Poland -- Tradition tell us that St. Luke painted it on top of a cypress wood table from the home of the Holy Family. Mary sat for the portrait and was so pleased by it that she said, "My grace shall accompany it". The painting was later brought to Constantinople and several centuries later it was given to a nobleman from Kiev. In 1382 the neck in the painting was pierced by an invading Tartar's arrow. Concerned with its safety, Prince Ladislaus Opolski decided to move it to a safer location; but the horses carrying the wagon with the painting suddenly stopped on a hill called Jasna Gora (Brigh hill) and nothing could make them move. Mary appeared to Ladislaus and told him that this was to be her new home. The recorded history of miracles surrounding the painting began in 1382 when it began to protect Poland from successive invading armies. The monastery of Jasna Gora became a monastic fortress and Our Lady of Czestochowa was crowned as Queen of Poland in 1430. Once, Hussites sacked the monastery, seized the painting and set off in their wagons. But the horses wouldnít budge. A hussite then threw the painting from the wagon and slashed it twice with his sword into the right cheek of Mary. When he went to strike it for a third time, he fell dead. Repeated efforts by artists to patch the scars failed since the facial cuts reappeared every time. The Black Madonna nickname refers to the dark skin colors caused by 2000 years of libations of incense and candles as well as from the major fire it was in during its years in Constantinople.

[Therese]

Ah I misread it. Thank you Therese. I was thinking of the incense of prayers and intercession.

Is incense really the reason the Black Madonna is black, Shin?  I never knew this.

I think that might be the case, but I am not certain. It could be originally so, it could also be due to Canticle of Canticles 1:5.

'I am black but beautiful, o ye daughters of Jerusalem, as the tabernacles of Cedar, as the skins of Salomon.'

Let me see if I can find out some more info. Oh, here is a description from one source I just briefly looked up online:

Monastery of Jasna Gora, Czestochowa, Poland -- Tradition tell us that St. Luke painted it on top of a cypress wood table from the home of the Holy Family. Mary sat for the portrait and was so pleased by it that she said, "My grace shall accompany it". The painting was later brought to Constantinople and several centuries later it was given to a nobleman from Kiev. In 1382 the neck in the painting was pierced by an invading Tartar's arrow. Concerned with its safety, Prince Ladislaus Opolski decided to move it to a safer location; but the horses carrying the wagon with the painting suddenly stopped on a hill called Jasna Gora (Brigh hill) and nothing could make them move. Mary appeared to Ladislaus and told him that this was to be her new home. The recorded history of miracles surrounding the painting began in 1382 when it began to protect Poland from successive invading armies. The monastery of Jasna Gora became a monastic fortress and Our Lady of Czestochowa was crowned as Queen of Poland in 1430. Once, Hussites sacked the monastery, seized the painting and set off in their wagons. But the horses wouldnít budge. A hussite then threw the painting from the wagon and slashed it twice with his sword into the right cheek of Mary. When he went to strike it for a third time, he fell dead. Repeated efforts by artists to patch the scars failed since the facial cuts reappeared every time. The Black Madonna nickname refers to the dark skin colors caused by 2000 years of libations of incense and candles as well as from the major fire it was in during its years in Constantinople.

Ah, yes, the candles and fire would add a lot to the effects of the incense on the Black Madonna image.  Thanks for the information!

[Therese]

'He [Caiphas] made of himself an execrable blasphemer in maintaining that He, who is holiness itself, had blasphemed.'

Ven. Mary of Agreda, City of God, Vol. III, 562

[Therese]

Some of them [at the house of Caiphas] struck Him in the face, others kicked Him, others tore out his hair, others spat upon his venerable countenance, others slapped or struck Him in the neck, which was a treatment reserved among the Jews only for the most abject and vile of criminals.'

Ven. Mary of Agreda, City of God, Vol. III, 562

[Therese]

'Never among men were such outrageous and frightful insults heaped upon any one as were then heaped upon the Redeemer.  Saint Luke and saint Mark say that they covered his face and then struck Him with their hands and fists saying:  Prophesy, prophesy to us, Thou Prophet, who was it that struck Thee?  The reason for their doing this was mysterious:  namely, the joy with which our Savior suffered all these injuries and blasphemies (as I will soon relate) made his face shine forth with extraordinary beauty, and on this account those ministers of wickedness were seized with unbearable consternation and shame.  They sought to attribute it to sorcery and magic and, by a resolution befitting also well their unworthiness, they covered the face of the Lord with an unclean cloth, so that they might not be hindered and tormented by its divine light in venting their diabolical wrath.  All these affronts, reproaches and insults were seen and felt by the most holy Mary, causing in Her the same pains and wounds in the same parts of her body and at the same time as afflicted upon the Lord.  The only difference was, that in our Lord the blows and torments were inflicted by the Jews themselves, while in his most pure Mother they were caused by the Almighty in a miraculous manner and upon request of the Lady.'

Ven. Mary of Agreda, Mystical City of God, Vol. III, 563

[Therese]

'Because I was a Daughter of Adam I mortified in me the senses and faculties with which he sinned, and I humiliated myself as one that had fallen and one guilty of his sin and disobedience, though I was entirely free from them.  All this I did not only for Adam, but for all who by nature are my brethren.  Thou canst not imitate me under like conditions, since thou art a partaker in his sin and guilt.  But I herewith impose upon thee to labor without ceasing for thyself and for thy neighbor, and to humiliate thyself to the very dust; since a contrite and humble heart draws down mercy from the divine goodness.'

Our Lady to Ven. Mary of Agreda, Mystical City of God, Vol. III, 571