"Purple cloth"

[Brigid]

I have looked in many commentaries, but I haven't been able to come up with a contemporary version of the purple cloth spoken of that Lydia worked with. Does anyone have any ideas?

[Brigid]

Anyone have any ideas? I've wondered about this for years.

[Shin]

I'm not sure I understand the question? What is it you're looking for exactly? Cloth of the same purple as in the Bible? Did I miss something? 

[Brigid]

Well, commentaries I've read have said that 'purple cloth' referred to cloth/clothing for the very well to do or even royalty (due to the expense of purple die). The NT mentions it when it doesn't mention the specific careers of many/most others (except St. Paul of course), so it must be important to us to understand. However how does it relate to us and what we do in the present culture. Is it a reference to leaving rich and 'high society' ways, or.......? What would be the equivalent thing (or idea?) in our present time?

[Shin]

Well it's a liturgical color..

Purple for royalty yes.. for Christ I would think..

Hmm.. I know where to look it up, in Lapide, St. Thomas, or Haydock.. I will take a look.

[AutumnRose]

I found this on-line:

Lydia was a women ahead of her time. She lived in about A.D. 50 and was a business women from Thyratira. In her business she sold purple cloth, which at that time, was associated with high social rank and great wealth. The purple dye was obtained from the shells of the murex, an ocean molusk. Because it was difficult to produce, the dye and garments of that color were expensive.

Hth!
 

[Brigid]

So what do you suppose that means for us today?

[Shin]

Hmm.. in the Douay it's just 'a seller of purple' which could also mean she simply sold the expensive ink... though it depends on what the word is behind the translation..

One of the scriptures mention it being forbidden for a time from being worn by any but the high priest.. and at another time giving it as a reward..

During the crucifixion the cloak thrown over Jesus's shoulders was a color of called either scarlet or purple...



And thou shalt make the tabernacle in this manner: Thou shalt make ten curtains of fine twisted linen, and violet and purple, and scarlet twice dyed, diversified with embroidery.

Thou shalt make also a veil of violet and purple, and scarlet twice dyed, and fine twisted linen, wrought with embroidered work, and goodly variety:

Exodus 26

So when his accusers saw his glory proclaimed, and him clothed with purple, they all fled away.

1 Machabees 10:64

And the woman was clothed round about with purple and scarlet, and gilt with gold, and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand, full of the abomination and filthiness of her fornication.

Apocalypse 17:4

[Shin]

If I had St. Isidore's Etymologies I perhaps he might have some of the symbolism of it in there. I couldn't find anything in my commentaries so far.

[Brigid]

If I had St. Isidore's Etymologies I perhaps he might have some of the symbolism of it in there. I couldn't find anything in my commentaries so far.

Thank you for all your help and research. I really appreciate it.

[Shin]

Everything means something.. If we look deep enough.. and scripture is bottomless!

[Patricia]

Could anyone help me with this. What are the symbols of the four gospel writers? I know its eagle for John. What does eagle symbolise?  Also the other gospel writers have certain symbols which look like a bull etc. These four apostles are painted on my church ceiling with their symbols, and I stare at them every time wondering what they mean

[martin]

Could anyone help me with this. What are the symbols of the four gospel writers? I know its eagle for John. What does eagle symbolise?  Also the other gospel writers have certain symbols which look like a bull etc. These four apostles are painted on my church ceiling with their symbols, and I stare at them every time wondering what they mean

Christian tradition has long connected the authors of the four Gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke, John) with the four "living creatures" that surround God's throne, as described in Rev 4:5-11, in the following pairs:

Matthew = Human/Angel
Mark = Lion
Luke = Ox
John = Eagle

Out from the throne come flashes of lightning and sounds and peals of thunder And there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God; and before the throne there was something like a sea of glass, like crystal; and in the centre and around the throne, four living creatures full of eyes in front and behind.
The first creature was like a lion, and the second creature like a calf, and the third creature had a face like that of a man, and the fourth creature was like a flying eagle.
And the four living creatures, each one of them having six wings, are full of eyes around and within; and day and night they do not cease to say, HOLY, HOLY, HOLY is THE LORD GOD, THE ALMIGHTY, WHO WAS AND WHO IS AND WHO IS TO COME."
And when the living creatures give glory and honor and thanks to Him who sits on the throne, to Him who lives forever and ever, the twenty-four elders will fall down before Him who sits on the throne, and will worship Him who lives forever and ever, and will cast their crowns before the throne, saying, Worthy are You, our Lord and our God, to receive glory and honor and power; for You created all things, and because of Your will they existed, and were created." (Rev 4:5-11)

[Patricia]

Matthew = Human/Angel
Mark = Lion
Luke = Ox
John = Eagle

Thanks Martin, I find it interesting . I wonder what it all means, the living creatures with six wings and eyes all around?

Brigid, regarding the Purple which is how the thread began... I've heard of the purple of martyrdom.

[Brigid]

Brigid, regarding the Purple which is how the thread began... I've heard of the purple of martyrdom.

That's an interesting thought!

Thanks Martin, I find it interesting . I wonder what it all means, the living creatures with six wings and eyes all around?

But weren't the seraphim supposed to have six wings.

[martin]

Thanks Martin, I find it interesting . I wonder what it all means, the living creatures with six wings and eyes all around?

But weren't the seraphim supposed to have six wings. Huh?

I listened to a sermon on line where they talked about all this stuff but I can't remember which sermon and I can't remember much of the details. (I was really tired at the time. In one ear out the other unfortunately)
I do remember though everything I heard and read concerning that wonder worker St Vincent Ferrer who had a miraculous gift of explaining obscure passages of scripture and I would be surprised if he hasn't mentioned the above. He Himself was the Angel of the Apocalypse sent throughout the world to proclaim repentance and the end times.

I struggle a lot with Apocalypse trying to make sense of it but that's why we have the saints to inform us.

Maybe our resident Keeper of the good books, Shin, might be able to shed some light on the topic.

Back to purple again Brigid...
Doesn't the color purple represent Royalty. martyrdom and penance?
During Lent all the statues in church are covered in purple cloth (penance), and during the crowning of thorns they dressed Our Lord in a purple robe and went down on their knees in mockery to do Him homage (royalty and suffering).