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Saints' Discussion Forums  |  Forums  |  Catholic General Discussion  |  Topic: Holy Roman Empire 0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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CyrilSebastian
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« Reply #17 on: January 17, 2020, 08:30:44 PM »

Many thanks for this thread, which has stimulated me to wander in fascination for several hours into my Catholic history and encyclopedia.  I encourage all readers to try a search along the lines of "beginning of the Holy Roman Empire" in your favorite search engine and share your reaction here.  I think you will be amazed, appalled, and saddened at the extent of misinformation, contradiction, and bias.  I am reminded of Jesus' teaching to Nicodemus, Jn 3:19, "...the Light came into the world but (many) people preferred darkness to light, because their works were evil."
I think Bing is much more objective than the other search engines, but sadly it too shows a wide range of dubious assertions.


   
 
eschator83, I am glad that you like this thread about the Holy Roman Empire. The Holy Roman Empire has years of history that can be learned about.
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eschator83
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« Reply #18 on: January 19, 2020, 11:04:09 AM »

My favorite book of Church history (I should admit I don't have very many books) is Joseph McSorley's An Outline History of the Church.  He comments in a note on p 326 that the addition of the adjective Holy to the term Roman Empire appeared for the first time in the reign of Frederick I (c1151-?) and appeared only occasionally for more than a century, becoming customary only in the reign of Charles IV (1347-1378). 
This is an incredible contradiction to most of the several other contradictions that appear in Bing, but seems somewhat reasonable because the dissolution of the brief Carolingian Empire and other misfortunes led McSorley to refer to the 10th century as the darkest age of the Church (and perhaps he meant most of Western civilization).
I'm hoping someone else might comment on other history "versions," and am tempted to write a bit about Bing's version(s) if there is interest.
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CyrilSebastian
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« Reply #19 on: January 19, 2020, 07:34:45 PM »

eschator83, Thank you for the information. I did not know about the adjective Holy in connection with the title.
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eschator83
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« Reply #20 on: January 20, 2020, 04:51:46 PM »

Sadly, just because something is titled history doesn't assure it's true.  Richard McBrien states in his book Lives of the Popes p 157 that Leo XII established the Holy Roman Empire in 962 when he crowned Otto I.
One of my least favorite books is Bokenkotter's A Concise History of the Catholic Church.  He doesn't even list the Holy Roman Empire in his index, and I can't find the term anywhere in his book.  But he states on p 89 that a new unity (Christendom) was created in 890 when Pope Leo III crowned  Charlemagne.
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CyrilSebastian
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« Reply #21 on: January 22, 2020, 07:46:59 PM »

Charlemagne called himself "Emperor of the Romans".     
Otto I was the first person to call himself "Holy Roman Emperor".     
He was the first person to use the word "Holy" in the title.
       
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eschator83
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« Reply #22 on: February 01, 2020, 09:07:36 PM »

Ironically, McSorley called the 900s the Darkest Age, in part because the Empire of Otto was much smaller than that of Charlemagne, and in just eleven years at Otto's death his empire was broken up, although later to be reconstructed and enlarged.  In contrast, painting history with a somewhat broader brush, Bokenkotter called the period from 600 to 1300 the Making of Christendom.  Who was it that said the devil is in the details?
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CyrilSebastian
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« Reply #23 on: February 07, 2020, 08:15:36 PM »

Holy Roman Emperor Otto I used his powers to install other members of his family into other Dukedoms.
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eschator83
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« Reply #24 on: February 10, 2020, 01:22:17 PM »

The wonder, and I think I can say miracle, of the reemergence of the Holy Roman Empire can be appreciated through these words from a Protestant Pastor, but Professor at Notre Dame Univ, Morton Kelsey: "...Western Civilization began to crumble in the sixth century (Barbarian invasions).  Disaster followed disaster, and there was no renewal (like we expect today).  Great cities of several hundred thousand people, like Aquileia, simply ceased to exist.  Hundreds of other cities, from Italy to Britain and from Switzerland to Spain were deserted and remained only piles of rubble, soon totally forgotten...Rome was plundered and finally fell.  Arabs swept away much of the Roman Empire, all of Asia minor and North Africa, and most of Spain.  They gained control of the Mediterranean, and commerce simply disappeared, as did the urban civilization based upon it...the church was the only major institution to survive the chaos."  p201-202 Healing and Christianity.
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CyrilSebastian
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« Reply #25 on: February 10, 2020, 07:21:23 PM »

Holy Roman Emperor Joseph II became his mother Maria Theresa's co-regent.     
He took over the handling of the army and foreign affairs.     
Joseph's attempt to exchange part of the Australian Netherlands for Bavaria was underminded by King Frederick II of Prussia.
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CyrilSebastian
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« Reply #26 on: February 27, 2020, 07:54:26 PM »

Holy Roman Emperor Ferdinand III reigned from 1637 until 1657. He was a composer.     
Some of his compositions survive in manuscripts: masses, motets, hymns and other sacred music. He composed Drama musicum in 1649.
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CyrilSebastian
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« Reply #27 on: April 14, 2020, 09:01:19 PM »

Otto II (955-983) was Holy Roman Emperor from 973 until 983.     
He followed the policy of his father in expanding the importance of the Church in his Empire, in particular the monasteries.
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CyrilSebastian
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« Reply #28 on: April 28, 2020, 09:20:49 PM »

Holy Roman Emperor Henry VI wanted to make the imperial crown hereditary.   
He tried to secure the Imperial election of his son Frederick II as King of the Romans.
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CyrilSebastian
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« Reply #29 on: May 22, 2020, 02:51:45 AM »

Matthias reigned as Holy Roman Emperor from 1612 to 1619.   
His wife Empress Anna of Tyrol founded the Capuchin Church in Vienna.
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CyrilSebastian
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« Reply #30 on: July 16, 2020, 11:11:45 AM »

Henry III was Holy Roman Emperor from 1026 until 1056.   
Henry inaugurated his reign with a tour through his domains.   
In the Low Countries he received homage of Gothelo I, Duke of Upper and Lower Lorraine.
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CyrilSebastian
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« Reply #31 on: August 06, 2020, 10:37:29 AM »

Conradin (1252-1268) was the son of Conrad IV of Germany.   
He is sometimes known as Conrad V of Germany. He never succeeded his father in Germany.   
He was recognized as King of the Germans by German supporters of the Hohenstaufens in 1254.
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CyrilSebastian
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« Reply #32 on: September 10, 2020, 12:59:06 PM »

Lucas van Valckenborch painted portraits for his patron Holy Roman Emperor Matthias.
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