Saints' Discussion Forums
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
September 17, 2021, 02:57:11 AM

Login with username, password and session length
Search:     Advanced search
* Home Help Calendar Mailbox Quotes Prayers Books Login Register
Saints' Discussion Forums  |  Forums  |  Book Study  |  Topic: The Cloud of Unknowing 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
Pages: [1] 2 Print
Author Topic: The Cloud of Unknowing  (Read 486 times)
Uriel
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 11



View Profile
« on: June 01, 2021, 08:43:07 PM »

Has anyone read this book or have comments about it?
"The Cloud of Unknowing describes the contemplative method centered around eliminating all noise and images from the mind, and in that encounter with nothingness, finding God. Meanwhile, despite the austerity of the content, the style of the author is warm and congenial and eminently readable. Patrick J. Gallacher further makes this text accessible to students and teachers by including a gloss, introduction, notes, and glossary. This text gives a great introduction to the ethos of mysticism in the middle ages."
Logged
Benedict
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 252


Patron Saint Benedict


View Profile
« Reply #1 on: June 01, 2021, 11:10:07 PM »

Cloud of Unknowning
The Prayer of the Prologue
God unto whom all hearts are open and unto whom every will speaks,
and from whom no secret thing is hidden,
I pray Thee to cleanse the intent of my heart with the ineffable gift of Thy grace,
that I may perfectly love Thee, and worthily praise Thee.
Amen

Prologue
"In the name of the Father and the Son and of the Holy Ghost. I charge you and I beseech you with as such power and strength as the body of charity will permit, that whoever you may be who comes into possession of this book, whether as your own property or by borrowing, that you neither read it nor write it or permit it to be read, written or spoken by any one who has not as far as you judge a full desire and intention to be a perfect follower of Christ not only in his active life but in the ultimate degree of contemplation to which it is possible to attain by grace in this life by a perfect soul still dwelling a mortal body; and you know that he does those things and has done so for a long time before, so that he has become capable of contemplative living by the virtuous means of active life, you may permit him to read this book.
Otherwise, it is not for him.
Logged

PAX
CRUX SANCTI PATRIS BENEDICTI
CRUX SACRA SIT MIHI LUX!
NON DRACO SIT MIHI DUX!
VADE RETRO SATANA!
NUMQUAM SUADE MIHI VANA!
SUNT MALA QUAE LIBAS
IPSE VENENA BIBAS!
All Glory Be To God!
All Praise Be To God!
For God Is Greater Than All Things!
Alleluia!
Alleluia!
Alleluia!
Uriel
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 11



View Profile
« Reply #2 on: June 02, 2021, 12:12:39 AM »

How ever I came upon this book I am not sure, but I had ordered a copy and now await it's arrival. All the years I spent in zen meditation...if only I new then what I know now.

We are meant to be saints/mystics but very few even try. And of those that do attempt this wonderous thing most fail. I really think this book might be the key that unlocks our spiritual enlightenment and closes the gap between the scholastic/ritual rites of the Church and a true Christian mystical life.
Logged
Benedict
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 252


Patron Saint Benedict


View Profile
« Reply #3 on: June 02, 2021, 12:43:15 AM »

We are meant to be saints/mystics but very few even try.
We are all called to be Saints, but not all are called to be mystics.
Mysticism is a particular grace, just like infused knowledge is a particular grace that benefits scholastics.
The mystical path has just as many pitfalls as the scholastic path.
Yet  the mystical path and the scholastic path work in tandem.
One elucidating the faith through means of supernatural faith the other experiencing the faith through supernatural grace.
One shines brightly, the other dwells in obscurity.
Though what has been revealed in the Lord illuminates even the obscure mist that bedews the mind in contemplation.

I am not worthy to open this book having read that first paragraph.
Logged

PAX
CRUX SANCTI PATRIS BENEDICTI
CRUX SACRA SIT MIHI LUX!
NON DRACO SIT MIHI DUX!
VADE RETRO SATANA!
NUMQUAM SUADE MIHI VANA!
SUNT MALA QUAE LIBAS
IPSE VENENA BIBAS!
All Glory Be To God!
All Praise Be To God!
For God Is Greater Than All Things!
Alleluia!
Alleluia!
Alleluia!
eschator83
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 352


View Profile
« Reply #4 on: June 02, 2021, 08:20:05 AM »

My vague recollection is this is an outstanding book- I have probably had it for 30 years, read it several times, lent it to friends, but haven't looked at it for perhaps 10 years.  I'm head home from camp today, will find it and would be delighted to share in discussion.  Many thanks for this inspiration.
Logged
eschator83
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 352


View Profile
« Reply #5 on: June 03, 2021, 03:22:36 PM »

On the basis of a quick scan and a little hindsight I think I was quite fascinated by the Cloud both because it was one of my first adventures in serious mysticism (perhaps spiritualism is a better word) and because the translator and commentator in my edition, Ira Progoff, was neither Catholic nor Christian, but quite sincerely Jewish and a fervent advocate of the psychological teachings and concerns of Karl Jung, whom I admire deeply for his religious emphasis.
I suppose I should admit I have some mixed emotions about the three primary tools for seeking truth: philosophy, scientism (aka empiricism), and religion, beginning with the firm impression that all three have made some enormous errors, and human epistemology seems to depend on wisdom from all three.  I think Christians inherited Jewish struggles between rationalism and spiritualism expressed in opposing views of wisdom, which seem to have continued with Matthew and Mark (Peter) in contrast to John and Luke (Paul) partly in the faith vs works conversations.  Alexandria and Antioch were notably contentious along these lines.  In our modern world an extreme is Karl Rahner's assertion that the Christian of the future will be a mystic or will not exist.  It seems the Catholic Church is losing much of the rational North, but offsetting it with the mystical South.
Yet I find myself more firmly convinced by my sense of the Divine Presence and action in my life and sometimes in me, than by my best rational efforts.
Logged
Benedict
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 252


Patron Saint Benedict


View Profile
« Reply #6 on: June 03, 2021, 11:27:53 PM »

I suppose I should admit I have some mixed emotions about the three primary tools for seeking truth: philosophy, scientism (aka empiricism), and religion, beginning with the firm impression that all three have made some enormous errors, and human epistemology seems to depend on wisdom from all three.
Put very simply:
Philosophy is love of wisdom, science is love of knowledge of earthly things, religion is love of God.
Science is the process of discerning between truth and falsehood.
Logic is a science within philosophy that deals with formal rules.
Rationality is the process of discernment of facts and truths and refutation of falsehoods.
Ethics is the field of philosophy that deals with the correct administration of justice and usage of truths to guide the conscience toward righteousness
Theology is a science within religion that deals with the supernaturally revealed matter of faith.
Morality is the usage of supernaturally revealed truths to the correct administration of grace and love.
The errors of all sciences are based in their lack of a positive result, their ineffective usage and their excess.
The errors of all philosophy is unsound or untrue conclusions.
The error of all religion is the failure of putting into practice that which God has revealed to the Church to be true.
Logged

PAX
CRUX SANCTI PATRIS BENEDICTI
CRUX SACRA SIT MIHI LUX!
NON DRACO SIT MIHI DUX!
VADE RETRO SATANA!
NUMQUAM SUADE MIHI VANA!
SUNT MALA QUAE LIBAS
IPSE VENENA BIBAS!
All Glory Be To God!
All Praise Be To God!
For God Is Greater Than All Things!
Alleluia!
Alleluia!
Alleluia!
eschator83
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 352


View Profile
« Reply #7 on: June 04, 2021, 09:19:30 AM »

Amen, Benedict.  The Preface by Ira Progoff of my Cloud edition ends with his following statement ... the Cloud has opened doorways for me into rooms that I could not have known of in advance.  Who can say what mansions will open (by Cloud) for you/(us)?
Early in life I felt very clearly the Presence of God and was certain He had interceded to help me.  I presume He calls every one of us, but obviously some refuse to acknowledge His Call and respond, probably for a very wide range of reasons, and perhaps some do not ever hear Him.  I think the work prescribed in the Cloud will help every hopeful person.
But I struggle to understand whether and why contemplation is the best part, even though our Lord said it.  By strange coincidence I've just recently read Fr Kersten's meditation on this; watch for a new thread in Book Study/ Bible Meditation...
Logged
Benedict
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 252


Patron Saint Benedict


View Profile
« Reply #8 on: June 04, 2021, 03:18:12 PM »

But I struggle to understand whether and why contemplation is the best part, even though our Lord said it. 
Contemplation, is supreme because of the object is the Most High God, the means is the subtle illumination of the Holy Spirit and the method is to sit at the feet of the Lord and listen to the Word of God. Contemplation is superior because all active life requires opportunity and effort whereas contemplation is ever available and is entirely the work of grace, even acquired contemplation is a matter of God enabling the natural light of the intellect to be illuminated by the brightness of supernatural faith. Furthermore, the works of mercy shall cease on the Last Day but contemplation shall exist into eternity, even in heaven the contemplation of God shall be further enhanced and perfected. For now we know in part and prophecy in part but when the fullness of divine day comes then that which is perfect shall remain. Contemplation is a particular grace not given to everyone but all are called to active life. As many are called to active life, few are chosen for sublime contemplation of heavenly mysteries. This is because many of the things revealed in contemplation may not lawfully be revealed but only that which profits for the glory of God and the salvation of souls. Contemplation also provides ample means of promoting an active life, kindling vehement love of God and poweful love for neighbor. The Mysteries of Christ are unexplainable yet sublime and delightful, just as God is, so are His Mysteries.
Logged

PAX
CRUX SANCTI PATRIS BENEDICTI
CRUX SACRA SIT MIHI LUX!
NON DRACO SIT MIHI DUX!
VADE RETRO SATANA!
NUMQUAM SUADE MIHI VANA!
SUNT MALA QUAE LIBAS
IPSE VENENA BIBAS!
All Glory Be To God!
All Praise Be To God!
For God Is Greater Than All Things!
Alleluia!
Alleluia!
Alleluia!
eschator83
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 352


View Profile
« Reply #9 on: June 20, 2021, 09:29:04 PM »

It seems to be a string of amazing coincidences that leads me to be rereading these related books (Cloud, Lectio, Kersten, plus Pope Francis' address on Meditation as well as several on prayer.  And perhaps it started because I had just finished a book on Meister Eckart's mysticism called The Way of Paradox.  I feel I should express deep appreciation to both of you for your patience with my weak comments, and for your motivation for me to try to learn some important things.
I had entirely forgotten how much effort the monk made in Cloud to justify the contemplative life and orders, which has sent me off to reading and rereading the New Advent Encyclopedia article on contemplation and its integral relation with a mystic life. This led me to several other websites commenting on various orders and even individual communities having widely different ranges and styles of contemplative versus active life.
The Cloud's emphasis on which is better/best troubles me even though I am fully aware of Jesus' comment to Martha about Mary.  But aren't Christians better off to follow the calling they believe they feel and understand, even in their reading and prayer, rather than striving to find and judge what's best?  Jesus didn't call the Apostles to contemplation, and He apparently didn't suggest it to Martha.
Deep down, my struggle is with Carl Rahner's statement that the Christian of the future will be a mystic or he will not exist.  I worry that Jesus came to teach Truth, not mystery, about the Kingdom, and Redemption, and His Divinity.  This seems the Good News of the Synoptic Gospels, though I acknowledge Jesus' miracles seem to have drawn more people than His Truth, as St Paul seemed to find in Athens.
Your comments are greatly appreciated.
Logged
Benedict
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 252


Patron Saint Benedict


View Profile
« Reply #10 on: June 21, 2021, 12:25:35 AM »

The Cloud's emphasis on which is better/best troubles me even though I am fully aware of Jesus' comment to Martha about Mary.  But aren't Christians better off to follow the calling they believe they feel and understand, even in their reading and prayer, rather than striving to find and judge what's best?  Jesus didn't call the Apostles to contemplation, and He apparently didn't suggest it to Martha.
Deep down, my struggle is with Carl Rahner's statement that the Christian of the future will be a mystic or he will not exist.  I worry that Jesus came to teach Truth, not mystery, about the Kingdom, and Redemption, and His Divinity.  This seems the Good News of the Synoptic Gospels, though I acknowledge Jesus' miracles seem to have drawn more people than His Truth, as St Paul seemed to find in Athens.
Your comments are greatly appreciated.
"The last and crowning act is the contemplation itself of the truth."
"We are urged to the vision of the First Principle, namely God, by the love thereof; hence Saint Gregory says 'the contemplative life tramples on all cares and longs to see the face of the creator'"
Saint Thomas Aquinas
Truth, when it is Truth, sets you free and sanctifies you. It would be unwise to abandon contemplation of the very Truth that liberated you from sin and adorned you with heavenly graces and adopted you in a New and Better Covenant mediated by a New and Better High Priest. How is the Truth not a Mystery? The Greek Truth, is that which is disclosed, the word for Mystery is rather that which has been made known to us by Divine Revelation of Jesus Christ. The word Revelation meaning unveiling as to reveal. Thus through the revealing of the Mysteries of the Kingdom of God and the Hidden Mystery, hidden since the ages and revealed in our Lord Jesus Christ and solely found intact within the Church.
In another sense, Jesus came to reveal the Mysteries of the Kingdom which He did through preaching repentance, teaching
using parables (analogy) and instructing using discourses (love one another). The entire Gospel is a Mystery and the Gospel itself belongs not solely to the category of Sacred Scripture but also to the realm of Sacred Tradition. Now Paul and Jesus said to pray always and not to lose heart. Contemplative life is therefore the simple fulfillment of the Apostolic Order: Pray at all times and whatever you do let it be for the glory of God. The contemplative life is the crown of active life. Though individual preferences vary: Saint Gregory the Great preferred Contemplation along with Saint Gregory Nazianzus while Saint Basil the Great preferred active life and this caused his order to be city dwelling. All Christians are called to the active life. The Contemplative life means nothing if you lack charity and good works. Contemplation primarily benefits from the Beatitude of Purity of heart and the Virtue of Humility.
Quote
"12. With the present diffusion of eastern methods of meditation in the Christian world and in ecclesial communities, we find ourselves faced with a pointed renewal of an attempt, which is not free from dangers and errors, to fuse Christian meditation with that which is non-Christian. Proposals in this direction are numerous and radical to a greater or lesser extent. Some use eastern methods solely as a psycho-physical preparation for a truly Christian contemplation; others go further and, using different techniques, try to generate spiritual experiences similar to those described in the writings of certain Catholic mystics.13 Still others do not hesitate to place that absolute without image or concepts, which is proper to Buddhist theory,14 on the same level as the majesty of God revealed in Christ, which towers above finite reality. To this end, they make use of a "negative theology," which transcends every affirmation seeking to express what God is and denies that the things of this world can offer traces of the infinity of God. Thus they propose abandoning not only meditation on the salvific works accomplished in history by the God of the Old and New Covenant, but also the very idea of the One and Triune God, who is Love, in favor of an immersion "in the indeterminate abyss of the divinity."15 These and similar proposals to harmonize Christian meditation with eastern techniques need to have their contents and methods ever subjected to a thorough-going examination so as to avoid the danger of falling into syncretism.

IV. The Christian Way to Union with God

13. To find the right "way" of prayer, the Christian should consider what has been said earlier regarding the prominent features of the way of Christ, whose "food is to do the will of him who sent (him), and to accomplish his work" (Jn 4:34). Jesus lives no more intimate or closer a union with the Father than this, which for him is continually translated into deep prayer. By the will of the Father he is sent to mankind, to sinners. to his very executioners, and he could not be more intimately united to the Father than by obeying his will. This did not in any way prevent him, however, from also retiring to a solitary place during his earthly sojourn to unite himself to the Father and receive from him new strength for his mission in this world. On Mount Tabor, where his union with the Father was manifest, there was called to mind his passion (cf. Lk 9:31), and there was not even a consideration of the possibility of remaining in "three booths" on the Mount of the Transfiguration. Contemplative Christian prayer always leads to love of neighbor, to action and to the acceptance of trials, and precisely because of this it draws one close to God."
Source :CONGREGATION FOR THE DOCTRINE OF THE FAITH

LETTER TO THE BISHOPS OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH
ON SOME ASPECTS OF CHRISTIAN MEDITATION*

October 15, 1989
« Last Edit: June 21, 2021, 01:58:58 AM by Benedict » Logged

PAX
CRUX SANCTI PATRIS BENEDICTI
CRUX SACRA SIT MIHI LUX!
NON DRACO SIT MIHI DUX!
VADE RETRO SATANA!
NUMQUAM SUADE MIHI VANA!
SUNT MALA QUAE LIBAS
IPSE VENENA BIBAS!
All Glory Be To God!
All Praise Be To God!
For God Is Greater Than All Things!
Alleluia!
Alleluia!
Alleluia!
eschator83
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 352


View Profile
« Reply #11 on: July 19, 2021, 02:37:14 PM »

This thread has provided me with a very important experience, but not at all in the way I imagined.  Probably I was distracted by the Jewish authorship of my edition, and his consistent psychological perspective.  I'm tempted to cite portions of his long, 38 page introduction, but since you probably don't have it, I'll first cite a bit of his modernization of Old English and ask for your comment.  Here are a few of his chapter summaries.  I'm curious if you have similar translations, and if you agree.
Ch XI- A (person) should weigh each thought and each stirring according to its nature...
XII- This work not only destroys sin, but engenders virtue.
XVII-A true contemplative does not desire to mix in active life.
LXXI-Some may feel the perfection of this work only in a time of ecstasy, while others may feel it whenever they wish, in the common state of the soul.
Logged
CyrilSebastian
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1719


View Profile
« Reply #12 on: July 19, 2021, 06:45:46 PM »

This thread has provided me with a very important experience, but not at all in the way I imagined.  Probably I was distracted by the Jewish authorship of my edition, and his consistent psychological perspective.  I'm tempted to cite portions of his long, 38 page introduction, but since you probably don't have it, I'll first cite a bit of his modernization of Old English and ask for your comment.  Here are a few of his chapter summaries.  I'm curious if you have similar translations, and if you agree.
Ch XI- A (person) should weigh each thought and each stirring according to its nature...
XII- This work not only destroys sin, but engenders virtue.
XVII-A true contemplative does not desire to mix in active life.
LXXI-Some may feel the perfection of this work only in a time of ecstasy, while others may feel it whenever they wish, in the common state of the soul.

   
How can Chapter 12 of this work destroy sin? Is not sin always somewhere?
Logged
Benedict
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 252


Patron Saint Benedict


View Profile
« Reply #13 on: July 19, 2021, 11:42:11 PM »

This thread has provided me with a very important experience, but not at all in the way I imagined.  Probably I was distracted by the Jewish authorship of my edition, and his consistent psychological perspective.  I'm tempted to cite portions of his long, 38 page introduction, but since you probably don't have it, I'll first cite a bit of his modernization of Old English and ask for your comment.  Here are a few of his chapter summaries.  I'm curious if you have similar translations, and if you agree.
Ch XI- A (person) should weigh each thought and each stirring according to its nature...
XII- This work not only destroys sin, but engenders virtue.
XVII-A true contemplative does not desire to mix in active life.
LXXI-Some may feel the perfection of this work only in a time of ecstasy, while others may feel it whenever they wish, in the common state of the soul.

   
How can Chapter 12 of this work destroy sin? Is not sin always somewhere?
I have not read the cloud of unknowing as I am unworthy to follow Christ Jesus in perfect imitation of Him but from my own studies this occurs to me to answer:
Technically, God's grace can prevent sin from occurring and so it is possible with God's grace to avoid sin.
The soul still must actively choose with the will to cooperate with the Holy Spirit and to avoid temptations and to rely on God in constant prayer in the Holy Spirit.
God can prevent sin for long periods of time in a soul because it gives Him glory to restore the human nature to cooperation with the Godhead and to justify humanity by the infusion of grace.
If we live in God's grace then we enjoy friendship with God and we shall become more like God in imitation of His virtues. The Holy Spirit, who is also called the mind of Christ, teaches us heavenly Wisdom and guides us on the Way of Life and illuminates our minds with Truth. It has been said that to contemplate is to grasp the truth and rather to comprehend with the mind what the hands or the tongue fail to grasp.
Logged

PAX
CRUX SANCTI PATRIS BENEDICTI
CRUX SACRA SIT MIHI LUX!
NON DRACO SIT MIHI DUX!
VADE RETRO SATANA!
NUMQUAM SUADE MIHI VANA!
SUNT MALA QUAE LIBAS
IPSE VENENA BIBAS!
All Glory Be To God!
All Praise Be To God!
For God Is Greater Than All Things!
Alleluia!
Alleluia!
Alleluia!
eschator83
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 352


View Profile
« Reply #14 on: August 08, 2021, 08:37:32 PM »

I am tempted to try to describe several aspects of the Cloud. using the author's language as I have it translated:
1- What is the Cloud of unknowing?
2-Why is it important?
3- What conditions did the author suggest/impose for every reader?
4- What were the major objectives defined by the author?
The truth is I've been working on review of these for the last couple months, without great confidence in my understanding, nor for that matter in my translation, so I'm hoping you will chip in with comments.
In general terms, I'm thinking the author was, primarily, writing an apology, with a good bit of evangelization, for Contemplative monasticism and perhaps even for selected hermits, reclusives, and aesthetics if they were working, or would work, at Contemplation within the Cloud.  I took quite a few notes at home, but seem to have forgotten to bring Cloud to camp, and brought instead several books on related topics which may be confusing me: Mental Prayer by Theologians Sodality Academy, St Mary's College, Kansas (1958).  P10 starts: Don't read this book.  It's not meant to be read...if you read it, it may hurt your prayer.
I am still very consistently trying to follow Fr Kersten's Daily Meditations.  And I also brought Clarence Enzler's In the Presence of God.
Logged
Benedict
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 252


Patron Saint Benedict


View Profile
« Reply #15 on: August 09, 2021, 02:39:45 AM »

I took quite a few notes at home, but seem to have forgotten to bring Cloud to camp, and brought instead several books on related topics which may be confusing me: Mental Prayer by Theologians Sodality Academy, St Mary's College, Kansas (1958).  P10 starts: Don't read this book.  It's not meant to be read...if you read it, it may hurt your prayer.
I am still very consistently trying to follow Fr Kersten's Daily Meditations.  And I also brought Clarence Enzler's In the Presence of God.

Don't read a book that warns it will harm your prayer.
I have looked at many treatise on mental prayer, none warned me not to read them, that is a red flag.
Please know that the Cloud of Unknowing is not an approved text. I do not believe any copy has obtained an imprimatur or a nihil obstat. Any book that exclusively covers spiritual content ought to have a bishop's approval to be read by the laity. You don't want to wind up spiritual confused or worse in a state of spiritual delusion.

I am tempted to try to describe several aspects of the Cloud. using the author's language as I have it translated:
1- What is the Cloud of unknowing?
2-Why is it important?
3- What conditions did the author suggest/impose for every reader?
4- What were the major objectives defined by the author?
The truth is I've been working on review of these for the last couple months, without great confidence in my understanding, nor for that matter in my translation, so I'm hoping you will chip in with comments.
In general terms, I'm thinking the author was, primarily, writing an apology, with a good bit of evangelization, for Contemplative monasticism and perhaps even for selected hermits, reclusives, and aesthetics if they were working, or would work, at Contemplation within the Cloud.
For example, you have already ignored the warning in the Cloud of Unknowing that "that you neither read it nor write it or permit it to be read, written or spoken by any one who has not as far as you judge a full desire and intention to be a perfect follower of Christ not only in his active life but in the ultimate degree of contemplation to which it is possible to attain by grace in this life by a perfect soul still dwelling a mortal body"
The Cloud of Unknowing is an inherently esoteric work and thus not worthy of my time as someone who imperfectly follows the active and contemplative life.
Thus by attempting to speak about the Cloud of Unknowing you reveal your contempt for the author's warning.

I will post a proper treatise about mystical theology that has been accepted by the Fathers and Doctors.
Logged

PAX
CRUX SANCTI PATRIS BENEDICTI
CRUX SACRA SIT MIHI LUX!
NON DRACO SIT MIHI DUX!
VADE RETRO SATANA!
NUMQUAM SUADE MIHI VANA!
SUNT MALA QUAE LIBAS
IPSE VENENA BIBAS!
All Glory Be To God!
All Praise Be To God!
For God Is Greater Than All Things!
Alleluia!
Alleluia!
Alleluia!
Pages: [1] 2 Print 
Saints' Discussion Forums  |  Forums  |  Book Study  |  Topic: The Cloud of Unknowing « previous next »
Jump to:  



Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines