Spiritual Warfare

[Patricia]

The boy who was exorcised had no mental problems, by the way. A perfectly normal kid.

About mental illness, I was watching a show about a lady with multiple personality disorder. She had invented those personalities in her mind to buffer sexual abuse as a child. So sometimes she was a little girl coloring, sometimes a teenage girl, sometimes a teenage boy (who could do play basket ball backwards, everytime ,without looking,  perfectly in the hoop!!!!!!!!!!!!!) Very sad.

[martin]

In the Gospels we read how our Lord cast out demons. It seemed like a daily occurance and the apostles where also comissioned to do the same.
I've often wondered where all these demons hve gone.. Have they suddenly all disappeared or don't they bother anymore with possessing people?
I beleve they are still here and doing what they've always done but in our age of PC it sounds so old-fashioned to believe that.
If more consideration was given to this possibility then it may well be to the benefit of the ailing patiant which is (or should be) the primary concern.

[Bailey2]

Patricia, most multiple personality can be treated with medication now, rejoice! 
(and I don't believe that boy was healthy; I don't trust observations from the 40's....... but whatever...... not worth an argument..... haven't read the book, hated the Exorcist  ).

Martinfegan, there was a thread here we had to abandon because I don't quite believe that in all cases, those demons Jesus caste out were really demons.  The people who wrote the gospels also wrote them through their human minds and understanding of things at the time.  But I don't want to start that thread again.  It became quite heated if I remember correctly since all here are really into demons. I think the devil is elusive, insidious, and hidden and not so dramatically manifest.  He's much more effective behind the scenes and in my estimation would not be beyond using the dramatic as a smokescreen for his real influence. 

"I do not fear Satan half so much as I fear those who fear him."  St. Teresa of Avila

[Brigid]

In one word: schizophrenia

The info was based on 1949 observations and medical knowledge....... we now actually have genetic info regarding that and other illnesses.  I'm one of those terrible mental health workers talked about above.............. a mentally ill person can believe many things and bring them to fruition.   You'd be surprised.  

#1, I wasn't saying that all people in mental institutions are possessed - by a long shot. #2 Exorcists I have heard have said that the d..... uses human weaknesses [such as genes] to oppress/possess people #3 think of how medical knowledge and scientific knowledge have changed in the last 150 years. We look down our noses at the knowledge then, so there's no reason to believe that that will be any different 150 years from now about our current state of knowledge #4 I, for one, know about the many things implicated in epilepsy, however I also know that my seizures (not the brain wave patterns) stopped at my baptism.

I, too, have wondered martin, about all those demons and the possible implications for medical treatment.

St. Teresa's disregard for demons mimics that of Jesus. That doesn't mean that he didn't cast them out of people.

I mentioned on the thread you are referring to as to what I heard a number of exorcists say about "The Exorcist" movie. I also mentioned what I heard them say about the movie "Emily Rose".

[Bailey2]

How neat Brigid, seizures ceasing after baptism!  

I actually think all these things we are getting into now fall into the unanswerable questions category.  Tires my poor brain.  Hey but when you said that about St Teresa minicing Jesus?  I had this image in my mind of Jesus walking by a possessed person (like in King of Kings) as He was conversing with his apostles and waving His hand in disgust as if dismissing the thing....... and just kept walking.  I know these things are supposed to be serious but I couldn't help but giggle the image in my mind.

I'll have to post some of what I've read of St. Jane Francis on this very issue when I have time.......

[Patricia]

Again I know that the Church is very cautious about people who ask for exorcisms and make sure that they do not have mental health problems. They watch the case very carefully and only if completely convinced that this is Satanic possession call in the exorcist. Levitation, speaking in foreign tongues, strangest things happening that is so obviously diabolic call for an exorcism.

The reason I liked the above book is that it is written by a non-believer and is therefore unbiased. He writes without any personal emotion or belief, and writes as a reporter reporting facts he has in hand. Thats the reason you would like the book, Bailey. I would certainly recommend this book to anyone who thinks that Satan is elusive, hidden  and not manifest dramatically.

And one does not fear the devil, but one must not reject his presence in the world either, especially tormented souls who need the help of an exorcist. Talk to an exorcist priest and he will tell you what he encounters and how much good he does the soul who needs his help.

[Bailey2]

Fair enough Patricia!  Someday when I have time, I'll ask you about that book!  Actually, I've never seen levitation, etc but yes, that would be disturbing...... and not mental illness. 

But, I want to be certain you know: I absolutely believe in the devil's/evil's presence on the earth.  Oh, and I still think the devil is elusive, hidden, and (OK) mostly not manifested dramatically.  But dramatics certainly would cause fear and so that is a good side effect of dramatics.  More fear, less love as scripture says. 

And oh dear Patricia, I wouldn't like a book because it is written by an atheist!  ..............Unless you meant I'd like it because of a dispassionate reporting style.  Yes, you'd be right about that ......... how well you know me if that is what you meant! 

[Patricia]

Yes, Bailey. I meant you'd like the reporting and unbiased style of writing.

Oh, and I still think the devil is elusive, hidden, and (OK) mostly not manifested dramatically.  But dramatics certainly would cause fear and so that is a good side effect of dramatics.  More fear, less love as scripture says. 

Fortunately, the devil is not permitted by God to be manifested always which is good for most of us. But for those poor souls who are oppressed the exorcist Priest comes to the rescue , as Jesus did while on earth.

[Therese]

I heard that demonic possesion is nowhere near as common after Christ came as it was before He came, when a great deal of the world was mixed up in practicing occult paganism/idolatry and not living the life of faith like the Hebrews, God's small group of chosen ones were and like the Christians who followed them were doing.
Before Christ, the world was under Satan's dominion with full rigor...there was no baptism or sanctifying grace to help souls be safe from Satan's domination either.

The exorcism given at our baptism is real and delivers the baptized soul from real bondage (some people who don't have the proper prayer of exorcism prayed over them encounter real problems with Satanic possesion in their lives, as has been documented).  I wonder if Protestant ordained ministers have to power/authority to perform these exorcisms at baptism and pray the prayer of exorcism over the people they are baptizing.

[Patricia]

I heard that demonic possesion is nowhere near as common after Christ came as it was before He came, when a great deal of the world was mixed up in practicing occult paganism/idolatry and not living the life of faith like the Hebrews,

Therese, but now I wonder if its all coming back. I see paganism and idolatory rampant in South Asia, persecution of Christians etc. Occultism in Africa and other places. Other terrible sins like homosexuality coming out in the open. Our world today seems a breeding ground for evil spirits.

[Therese]

I heard that demonic possesion is nowhere near as common after Christ came as it was before He came, when a great deal of the world was mixed up in practicing occult paganism/idolatry and not living the life of faith like the Hebrews,

Therese, but now I wonder if its all coming back. I see paganism and idolatory rampant in South Asia, persecution of Christians etc. Occultism in Africa and other places. Other terrible sins like homosexuality coming out in the open. Our world today seems a breeding ground for evil spirits.

Yes, I agree, Patricia.

[Brigid]

Again I know that the Church is very cautious about people who ask for exorcisms and make sure that they do not have mental health problems. They watch the case very carefully and only if completely convinced that this is Satanic possession call in the exorcist. Levitation, speaking in foreign tongues, strangest things happening that is so obviously diabolic call for an exorcism.

Yes, the Church is very, very careful. Only in cases where medicine or psychiatry doesn't help the person is an exorcist called in.

I would also agree that possession and oppression are seeming to make a come back in some parts of the world. Anyway, that's what I've heard. It's especially bad in Rome - for obvious reasons.

[Bailey2]

I want to thank you all for contributing to my nightmares last night!!!   
Think I'll stay away from threads like this!

[Shin]

Makes one wonder how many people in mental institutions would truly benefit from an exorcism.

Haven't read it! I may put it on my list!

I have a few books on exorcism, two of Fr. Gabriel Amorth's, which are quite good practical books, with few flaws, though not as in depth as one might like on some subjects because they are just that, practical workbooks dealing with basics.. One gets the impression that the exorcists keep a certain amount of information to themselves for prudent reasons.

[Brigid]

I want to thank you all for contributing to my nightmares last night!!!   
Think I'll stay away from threads like this!

 

[Patricia]

I want to thank you all for contributing to my nightmares last night!!!   Angry
Think I'll stay away from threads like this!

Didn't mean to scare you, Bailey.  Sorry.

Haven't read it! I may put it on my list!

I have a few books on exorcism, two of Fr. Gabriel Amorth's, which are quite good practical books, with few flaws, though not as in depth as one might like on some subjects because they are just that, practical workbooks dealing with basics.. One gets the impression that the exorcists keep a certain amount of information to themselves for prudent reasons.

Shin, the book is very good. I feel it increases faith in the Catholic church because you see the devil operating openly right there , and how it takes Jesuit priests  to get rid of him. A Protestant pastor tries but doesn't succeed.
I want to caution you or any sensitive person (Bailey ) out there, that there are some vulgar parts in the book where the devil blasphemes through the boy, so be prepared for that. Not a book for children.