Quote for the Day: Pride & the Ladder of Humility

[Patricia]

1) To acknowledge oneself contemptible;
) To suffer oneself to be treated with contempt
7) To love being thus treated

I have a question. Where does one draw the line between the above and being abused or treated like a door-mat? When does one suffer in silence and when does one speak up against say, verbal abuse?

[Shin]

Good question! I do not truly really know so I hesitate to say anything at all..

Perhaps, I think one has to judge the situation, test, and see what method works overall for the best good.

Authority, for example, duties.. the good of others.. other factors weigh in besides exercising outward humility.. that one has to weigh..

[Brigid]

1) To acknowledge oneself contemptible;
) To suffer oneself to be treated with contempt
7) To love being thus treated

I have a question. Where does one draw the line between the above and being abused or treated like a door-mat? When does one suffer in silence and when does one speak up against say, verbal abuse?

That is a wonderful question, and one I've often pondered myself. My hunch would be that if children are involved, that it would be uncharitable and shirking responsibility as a parent to let it continue. Even when the verbal/emotional abuse is unseen by them, the resulting fear, etc. is not unseen. Thing is, I don't know where that line is when no children are involved.

[Bailey2]

IX. Is false confessions and exaggerated guilt, the pretense of humility, to put one in the good graces of others or for some other manipulative purpose. False tears and sighs and groans.. But when the penalty is given for this false confession the confessed resents having to pay any..

In psychology, there is a diagnosis for this.   


Seriously though:  In my mind, to confess rightly is simply to do it honestly, in the confessional and out.  Though I have done my share of the above... I have found that honestly and openness fosters tremendous interior growth.  Of course that is easier to do with a steady confessor who knows one well over time.

Humility comes from the word, humus meaning the ground/earth.  In my head I have this metaphor for humility.  To be humble is to be the ground, dirty and yet rich, and happy to be ground.  The ground accepts, in facts draws in the rain and the sunshine and in doing so is fertile enough to produce wonderful things from seeds.  Pride by contrast I think of as a metal roof, repels the rain and the sun and grows nothing.

And accepting abuse in real life apart from metaphor?  I think that has to do with respecting all life, including our own.  Using the same metaphor, if the ground is pounded too much, nothing grows either and it also can't draw in the rain and the sun.  It's surface becomes shiny like the metal roof.  So we must stick up for ourselves!   

[Patricia]

I found this quote on Saintsquotes.

'The deeper our humility, the higher will be our place in heaven. . As Lucifer wished to raise himself to the highest place in heaven, and in punishment of his pride was cast into the depths of hell, so the soul that humbles herself most profoundly causes Satan to tremble and be confounded, and God exalts her to the glory of paradise.'

~~~St. Paul of the Cross

[Shin]

I found this quote on Saintsquotes.

'The deeper our humility, the higher will be our place in heaven. . As Lucifer wished to raise himself to the highest place in heaven, and in punishment of his pride was cast into the depths of hell, so the soul that humbles herself most profoundly causes Satan to tremble and be confounded, and God exalts her to the glory of paradise.'

~~~St. Paul of the Cross

Honesty and simplicity are like a rudder that help people confess well. I know they've always helped me through my confessions when there was the threat of it all becoming too complicated. 

This quote reminds me that St. Francis of Assisi was given one of the thrones in Heaven that formerly had been held by an angel in Heaven, who had fallen and lost it. He was raised high above because of the depth of his humility. A beautiful story told by one of his brothers who saw it in a vision, if I recall correctly.

[Patricia]

'The King of Heaven deigned to be born in a stable, because He came to destroy pride, the cause of man's ruin.'

~~~St. Alphonsus Maria de Liguori

[Shin]

'The truly humble man fears only that some honor might be shown him; and if such a thing should happen to him, he is interiorly alarmed and distressed at it; he compares himself with no one, neither his superiors, his inferiors, nor yet with his equals, for he esteems himself the last of all. He despises no one but himself; he desires ardently to be despised by all the world, and sincerely rejoices in contempt. Such a man fears no dishonor, because he loves no honor.'

St. Albert the Great

[Brigid]

'The truly humble man fears only that some honor might be shown him; and if such a thing should happen to him, he is interiorly alarmed and distressed at it; he compares himself with no one, neither his superiors, his inferiors, nor yet with his equals, for he esteems himself the last of all. He despises no one but himself; he desires ardently to be despised by all the world, and sincerely rejoices in contempt. Such a man fears no dishonor, because he loves no honor.'

St. Albert the Great

I don't get it though. We wouldn't be good stewards of our body if we allowed ourselves to feel morose about ourselves. St. Teresa of Avila never intimated that she was. St. Therese also didn't, however her Little Way does advocate loving if people say bad things about you or don't esteem you. Has the word 'contemptible' changed it's meaning (as has pray [to or thee])? Psychologists, even orthodox Catholic ones try to get people to not see themselves as 'pond scum'.

[Shin]

I think that there are psychologically health and unhealthy ways to see yourself as contemptible. 

Just like there's a black kind of sorrow that is despair and depressing, and a kind of sorrow that makes you cry but not despair, rather still hope, beyond hope, because of the goodness of God.

But it's true I don't understand this truly, and am only just saying what little comes to mind.

I've long tried to capture interior ideas of the full range of what are good emotions and a good emotional life is that is productive and what is not, but I have not got it yet by far.

[Brigid]

In other words, there is contemptible with hope and there is contemptible without hope. The former is the one we to which we should aspire. Is that what you're meaning?

[Shin]

In other words, there is contemptible with hope and there is contemptible without hope. The former is the one we to which we should aspire. Is that what you're meaning?

Hmm, I didn't think of it that way until you said it but that could be it. Contemptible with hope can produce other good emotions, in consideration of God.

Contemptible without hope is self destructive.

[Bailey2]

I definitely have some thoughts on this one:

Code:

'The truly humble man fears only that some honor might be shown him; and if such a thing should happen to him, he is interiorly alarmed and distressed at it

The temptation is to think yourself a little god.  You can think yourself better, smarter, above, and are indignant when you are not respected for your position.  (think Tiger Woods, celebrities, etc).  There is much to be feared in being honored.  I often pray for priests because of this very temptation.  

he compares himself with no one, neither his superiors, his inferiors, nor yet with his equals, for he esteems himself the last of all. He despises no one but himself; he desires ardently to be despised by all the world, and sincerely rejoices in contempt.

I don't think he means despised in the sense of self-depreciation.  I think he is referring to his opening sentence about the fear of honor and what it can do to the mind and soul.  One who is esteemed by others DOES compare him/herself to those above and below status-wise.  Those above he/she is jealous of or aspires to get equal to; those beneath he/she looks down on; those equal he/she sees as competition.  So it is wise to despise self in the sense of being mindful that we all come from dust and are going to dust.  Offsets the temptations.

Such a man fears no dishonor, because he loves no honor.'

 
This is the goal.  If one keeps in the forefront that he/she is dust (and therefore in a sense despised of the world), one becomes free of opinion either way and all the temptations above.  Then, if honor is thrust upon such a person he won't have to fear it because it means nothing to him/her.  

[Shin]

Little Napoleons! 

Hmm. They are good pastries though. 

Very few celebrities go to Heaven, I feel it looks to be the case! It's just deadly to be surrounded by people telling you what you want to hear instead of what you need to hear, and having all your pleasures at your beck and call!

[Shin]

'. . . God deigned that we have freedom to do good and evil, we are obligated by debt of justice to do good, and we cannot do it without divine grace. Whoever thinks that he can by himself accomplish something besides fault and defect is really lacking any sort of intellect.'

St. Catherine of Bologna

[Patricia]

Whoever thinks that he can by himself accomplish something besides fault and defect is really lacking any sort of intellect.'

St. Catherine of Bologna

That's blunt.