Quote for the Day: Pride & the Ladder of Humility

[Bailey2]

Little Napoleons!  :angryred
Very few celebrities go to Heaven,

Hmm, hi god Shin!
Reader of hearts!  
Wow, the makings of celebrity status!  


PS. Been there, done that; especially a few yrs ago.  Many priests and lay have done the same.
We are all guilty in big and small ways.             

[Shin]

Little Napoleons!  :angryred
Very few celebrities go to Heaven,

Hmm, hi god Shin!
Reader of hearts!  
Wow, the makings of celebrity status!  


PS. Been there, done that; especially a few yrs ago.  Many priests and lay have done the same.
We are all guilty in big and small ways.              

Just applying these kinds quotes, my dear, I wouldn't say it of my own authority:

'Alas, my friend. We cannot be together in Heaven unless we have begun to live so in this world. Death makes no change in that. As the tree falls, so shall it lie. . . Jesus Christ said . . . "He that does not hear the Church, let him be to thee as a heathen and a publican." And he also said, "There shall be one fold and one shepherd," and He made St. Peter the chief shepherd of His flock. My dear friend, there are not two ways of serving Jesus Christ. There is only one good way, and that is to serve Him as He Himself desires to be served.'

St. Jean Marie Baptiste Vianney, the Cure of Ars

Among adults there are few saved because of sins of the flesh.

St. Regimius of Rheims

'I do not speak rashly, but as I feel and think. I do not think that many bishops are saved, but that those who perish are far more numerous.'

St. John Chrysostom, Archbishop, Doctor, Father of the Church

As the scriptures say few people go to Heaven in general, and it's even harder for the rich, I don't think being a celebrity improves the odds above being a bishop or average person! I am not reading specific hearts, I am speaking generally of those who live in sin just like the scriptures do!  


'For many are called, but few chosen.'

Mark 20:16

[Bailey2]

(I was laughing when I wrote that other post; hope you didn't take it to heart)  

RE: Saints' pronouncements.
Judging from the dates they lived, I am not sure they were aware of mass worldwide starvation and disease that encompasses the vast majority of the earth's population now ("most people go to hell").   I am willing to bet they were referring to the limited civilized population they knew about.  One can't argue about Our Lord's words but I think there are many ways to be rich besides money.  One can be rich in power; rich in status; rich in thoughts or emotions; rich in libido.  All of these riches can lead to hell.  

This however, can seem quite true, especially these days, especially in light of recent bishops' resignations and the pope's speech yesterday.........
I do not think that many bishops are saved, but that those who perish are far more numerous.'
St. John Chrysostom, Archbishop, Doctor, Father of the Church
But again, I think and hope that many bishops repent before death; so I pray for that anyway.  

Back to St Albert the Great (was he a pope?), the temptations related to honor, prestige, and position are more subtle and powerful than purity issues or anything else.  Temptations that go along with being honored lead to most other sins, including impurity and abuse.   St. Albert was right on...... but if he was a pope, he probably knew these temptations very well indeed!  So did St. John Chrysostom; why he probably said what he said about bishops.

And you know by now Shin, I think of these things with a slightly different twist; so take me with a grain of salt for my warped mind.  

[Brigid]

St. Jean Marie Baptiste Vianney, the Cure of Ars
Among adults there are few saved because of sins of the flesh.

I would imagine that lust would top the list of sins of the flesh. Since that is probably the case, I don't know of anyone (personally) who could be saved. :'(

Makes one want to go to confession every day.

[Bailey2]

Does "flesh" always mean sex?   
Just curious; Saints reference it a lot but I was curious about scripture because Our Lord seemed to be most lenient and compassionate with this sin and yet a bit more harsh about arrogance, especially in dealing with the honorable of the time. 

[Brigid]

Our Lord seemed to be most lenient and compassionate with this sin and yet a bit more harsh about arrogance ....

You know, that's true - then I wonder why so many Saints say otherwise (and hardly even mention arrogance or self-righteousness)? Same with Our Lady at Fatima.

[Shin]

And you know by now Shin, I think of these things with a slightly different twist; so take me with a grain of salt for my warped mind.   Grin

I usually give people a pound of salt for me! 


Well, I heard the other day listening to a priest's sermon that the sins overwhelming mentioned in Confession have to do with lust (I believe it was this one). And so, he added while there are greater sins than lust that offend God more in their commission, the main cause of people going to Hell is lust. He quoted one saint while saying that while some may go to Hell ultimately because of other sins, they will also at least generally not go to Hell without having committed sins of lust as well.

And that said, only the pure of heart shall see God, one of the general categories mentioned in scripture of those that do not go to Heaven is 'fornicators'.

'Know you not that the unjust shall not possess the kingdom of God? Do not err: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor the effeminate, nor liers with mankind, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor railers, nor extortioners, shall possess the kingdom of God.'

1 Cor 6:9-10

And it is said that some forms of lust -are- the worst sins possible, that 'cry out to Heaven for vengeance':

'This vice disturbs the intellect, breaks an elevated and generous state of soul, drags great thoughts to petty ones, makes [men] pusillanimous and irascible, obstinate and hardened, servilely soft and incapable of anything . . . Someone who lived practicing the vice of sodomy will suffer more pains in Hell than anyone else, because this is the worst sin that there is.'

St. Bernardine of Siena

When I think about lust I think about sensuality in general, the desire of the flesh for anything.. gluttony and lust are linked sins for example, they often go together.

The saints are very good at denying themselves basic comforts that other people find it hard to do without. A comfortable bed, comfortable clothes.. temperatures.. good tasting food..  I feel there's more to this than we understand before we truly engage in such ascetic practices. I wish however I was better enough at them to be able to say more about it.

There's nothing like humbling yourself through your inability to do even some of the smaller mortifications and ascetic practices!

[Bailey2]

It must be my age but............
You don't do illicit sex of any kind if you are not first thinking somehow you are entitled to it and entitlement is a symptom of arrogance, not lust.
Forgive me for disagreeing with some Saints' assessment of the situation in terms of prioritizing things. 
All I can say is that they must have been young men. 
If not, they must have got around as young men. 

I like St Albert's assessment of things better.   


PS.  Do any women Saints have this preoccupation with lust being the end all and be all of sins?  I would really be interested in that.

[Brigid]

All I can say is that they must have been young men

Do any women Saints have this preoccupation with lust being the end all and be all of sins?  I would really be interested in that.

I'd be interested in that, too.

[Patricia]

'I say the same of humility and of all the virtues; the wiles of the devil are terrible, he will run a thousand times round hell if by so doing he can make us believe that we have a single virtue which we have not. And he is right, for such ideas are very harmful, and such imaginary virtues, when they come from this source, are never unaccompanied by vainglory; just as those which God gives are free both from this and from pride.'

~~~St. Teresa of Jesus

Found this quote on Saintsquotes. Scary right? the trouble the devil takes to make us have one proud thought about ourselves. God deliver us from his wiles.

[Brigid]

'I say the same of humility and of all the virtues; the wiles of the devil are terrible, he will run a thousand times round hell if by so doing he can make us believe that we have a single virtue which we have not. And he is right, for such ideas are very harmful, and such imaginary virtues, when they come from this source, are never unaccompanied by vainglory; just as those which God gives are free both from this and from pride.'

~~~St. Teresa of Jesus

Found this quote on Saintsquotes. Scary right? the trouble the devil takes to make us have one proud thought about ourselves. God deliver us from his wiles.

Only by God's Grace and Mercy do we even stand a chance.

[Patricia]

'Our eighth struggle is against the demon of pride, a most sinister demon, fiercer than all that have been discussed up till now. He attacks the perfect above all and seeks to destroy those who have mounted almost to the heights of holiness. Just as a deadly plague destroys not just one member of the body, but the whole of it, so pride corrupts the whole soul, not just part of it. Each of the other passions that trouble the soul attacks and tries to overcome the single virtue which is opposed to it, and so it darkens and troubles the soul only partially. But the passion of pride darkens the soul completely and leads to its utter downfall.

In order to understand more fully what is meant by this, we should look at the problem in the following way. Gluttony tries to destroy self-control; unchastity, moderation; avarice, voluntary poverty; anger, gentleness; and the other forms of vice, their corresponding virtues. But when the vice of pride has become master of our wretched soul, it acts like some harsh tyrant who has gained control of a great city, and destroys it completely, razing it to its foundations. The angel who fell from heaven because of his pride bears witness to this. He had been created by God and adorned with every virtue and all wisdom, but he did not want to ascribe this to the grace of the Lord. He ascribed it to his own nature and as a result regarded himself as equal to God. The prophet rebukes this claim when he says: 'You have said in your heart: "I will sit on a high mountain; I will place my throne upon the clouds and I will be like the Most High." Yet you are a man, and not God' (cf. Isa. 14:13-14). And again, another prophet says, 'Why do you boast of your wickedness, O mighty man?' and he continues in this same vein (Ps. 52:1). Since we are aware of this we should feel fear and guard our hearts with extreme care from the deadly spirit of pride. When we have attained some degree of holiness we should always repeat to ourselves the words of the Apostle: "Yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me' (1 Cor. 15:10), as well as what was said by the Lord: 'Without Me you can do nothing' (John 15:5). We should also bear in mind what the prophet said: 'Unless the Lord builds the house, they labor in vain that build it' (Ps. 127:1), and finally: 'It does not depend on-man's will or effort, but on God's mercy (Rom. 9:16).'

St. John Cassian

[martin]

Yes Patricia….. I fear pride more than anything, as it is the very sin of the Devil and his demons. It turns the good accomplished in us to something detestable and makes the very grace that God bestows on us work to our ruin. It can bring every good thought or intention under its control. It can even prevent us from confessing our sins.
No wonder Saint Paul told us to work out our salvation in fear and trembling.
In spite of the countless virtues of Our Blessed Lady, it was as she tells us in the Magnificat, Her humility which God regarded.
Dear Mother Mary, protect us all from this diabolical vice that aligns us with Satan makes us as enemies of God.
Even we who are sinful can overlook the faults in others that arise from human weakness, seeing our own frailty reflected in them. But pride is detestable even to the most evil among us when we see it in another.
Jesus, meek and humble of heart, make our hearts like unto Thine.

[Brigid]

And that said, only the pure of heart shall see God, one of the general categories mentioned in scripture of those that do not go to Heaven is 'fornicators'.

And who among human beings can truthfully say that they have not ever lusted in their heart? Same with arrogance. Everyone has been arrogant in their heart or covetous (I imagine that's true even for some of the Saints). Jesus says the sins of the heart are just as bad.

A. Sins of impurity are the most dangerous:

Because they have the most numerous temptations;
Because, if deliberate, they are always mortal, and
Because, more than other sins, they lead to the loss of faith.


Baltimore Catechism #3

[Shin]

Yes, how many people are living in sin because of this temptation? They are no longer able to repent because they craft their lives around a false marriage, or a shared home and finances, or a simple way of life of indulgence. Like a drug, it addicts.

Isn't it this temptation that is the cause of abortion and the destruction of the family? The reason why divorce, contraception, abortion, unnatural relations, all are the great sins of this time and the forefront of the vangard of Satan?

Without lust, how different people would be, and how different their sins. And because of it, people say that God is willing to tolerate it, but it is a mortal sin, even in small doses. If children are not raised to reject it -- how much harder it becomes, after it is tasted, and how casually what is mortal sin is approached.

Literature, television, music, clothing, all are full of celebrations of it rather than celebrations of its denial.

May God have mercy on us poor sinners. May God deliver all sinners captured in this net, and cut them free. St. Peter ora pro nobis. Pray for us, apostolic fishermen, that the worst of sinners, and all the world, may be cut free.

[Brigid]

May God have mercy on us poor sinners. May God deliver all sinners captured in this net, and cut them free. St. Peter ora pro nobis. Pray for us, apostolic fishermen, that the worst of sinners, and all the world, may be cut free.

Martin said this on another thread:

Doesn't this speak of the great mercy and goodness of God.
Even those who do not believe in Him are still upheld by Him and He still grants them their very existance.
He causes the sun to shine on the good and evil alike.