Holy detachment

[Brigid]

Isn't this where trust in Him and holy detachment come in?

Yes, exactly.

[Therese]

Why is that person's head hitting against a brick wall?

[Bailey2]

I have to agree with Therese.  What's with the brick wall?

I'm in complete agreement there. To me God sending us crosses really means allowing us crosses. But to become larger than the cross - what do you mean, there?

When Jesus rose from the dead, he conquered the cross...... rose above the cross.... transcended the cross.  I think we do that whenever we take our suffering experiences and focus our energy on something greater than our sufferings/cross.  When we do that, we rise from that death (become larger than the cross) and I think we repeat this until final death when Jesus will raise us up the final time.  Hope that helps.

Isn't that just repressing it, almost a denial? Isn't a person facing up to 'it', plowing through 'it and going on anyway, more likely to be open to God (and, of course be healthier)? Now I'm talking in theory, not in your particular case. Maybe facing up to it and doing something worthwhile was plowing through it in your case.

Facing in the sense of grieving is good.  Ruminating indefinitely is unhealthy (there's a diagnosis for that   ).  Best way I can describe this is the following:  sometimes I get a paper cut and for a while it doesn't hurt though it's bleeding all over.  Then, I notice the blood and bam! Suddenly it hurts like heck.  It all depends where my attn is.  Once the initial shock and grief over a loss is waning, it is time to help the healing process along by focussing our attn on something else, something more productive and life-giving.  I think sometimes we need to detach from our delusions that we are somehow getting ourselves to heaven by suffering.  I think God wants us to get to a place of simply kissing the cross and putting it on the shelf while we live Resurrection.  Jesus only suffered the cross one day, not his whole life!

You know?  I just read something by St. Chantal about this very thing........ I'll have to put it here........ but not now.  Got to go............  Nite.

[Patricia]

I think sometimes we need to detach from our delusions that we are somehow getting ourselves to heaven by suffering.

No delusions here Bailey. Every Catholic Saint that ever lived has spoken of the importance of suffering which is the quickest means God sends us to come closer to Him. In fact it is said that God sends crosses to His friends . Not only can we use the suffering God sends us for the good of our own soul but also for the souls in Purgatory and for the conversion of sinners.

Jesus only suffered the cross one day, not his whole life!

Bailey,  Jesus suffered  the Cross from the moment he was born , all His Life upto the moment of His death on the Cross. He was a Man of Sorrows.

Why put your cross on a shelf when you can accept it lovingly and carry it for Jesus's sake?

Facing in the sense of grieving is good.  Ruminating indefinitely is unhealthy (there's a diagnosis for that   Grin

I agree with you on that. If you have to carry your cross, carry it joyfully and not with  a long face. Offer up the heavy cross to God and He will help you carry it with joy.

[Patricia]

The Christian's motto is the cross. You will recognize God's love by this sign, by the sufferings He sends you.
~~ Padre Pio

Bless Him in all that He makes you suffer on this earth and rejoice in it, for each victory gained has a corresponding crown in paradise.

~~ Padre Pio

[Brigid]

Why is that person's head hitting against a brick wall?

That's me trying to achieve trust in Him and holy detachment.

[Brigid]

In some ways I agree with Bailey about needing to rise above our sufferings as He did, however I think that can be carried too far. Bailey, when you said that you do have to 'grieve' and that that is necessary I think that's what Patricia was saying. That we can't avoid our crosses indefinitely because then all we can do is carry them around without being aware of it and be grim.

The Saints have all agreed about needing to suffer, but they don't all say to continue suffering about the same thing for years. Carrying our crosses joyfully is to me more about recognizing them, accepting them then giving them to God.

[Therese]

Why is that person's head hitting against a brick wall?

That's me trying to achieve trust in Him and holy detachment.

Cute!

Sometimes life can seem very unfair - I know - but please know that God uses everything, things fair and unfair, either to help us with something we will be experiencing down the road or to mold us into his saints.

[Bailey2]

Greetings Patricia!

Bailey,  Jesus suffered  the Cross from the moment he was born , all His Life upto the moment of His death on the Cross. He was a Man of Sorrows.

 
That you for that correction!!  If God became a human being, then that was the biggest cross of all... beyond comprehension.  worse than the cross He died on!  Thank you!

Why put your cross on a shelf when you can accept it lovingly and carry it for Jesus's sake?

My poor choice of words here:  putting my cross on the shelf is something that happens when my cross is accepted.  I imagine a shelf in my bedroom.  I can't get other things done (say my ministry or calling as a wife/mom)  or appreciate the bouquet of flowers on the window sill if I hold on to the cross in my fist and gaze at it all the time.  That's what I meant.  It still belongs in my bedroom.  Acceptance means I don't try to throw it out of the bedroom and that sometimes I take it down and kiss it in appreciation for the transformation it has wrought in me......... understanding people better, becoming more compassionate in the truest sense of the word.    But, I think God gives us joys also as a means to Him.


This next is more an indication of my coping than perhaps an argument. 
I cannot believe that Jesus hands us a particular suffering like you would hand me a glass of water to drink.  I believe that through Original Sin, suffering came into the world and that we are sharers in the consequence of that event; it is the way of things here on earth.  I believe particular sufferings are random.  God doesn't say, "***, I think I'll give so and so an experience of sexual abuse as his cross and so and so over there, well she can't take it, so I'll give her  the cross of having the normal stresses of children in a good and healthy and loving family."   If I believed crosses were that particularly given to us, I'd probably be an atheist.  I can't imagine God that cruel to the starving children in Africa and India; handing them that cross because they can handle it or because it will insure their salvation (better than the blissful housewife above).   Rather, I believe when a particular suffering comes our way randomly, we have a choice what to do with that suffering (cross).  We can resent it, run from it, curse it, or recognize it as an opportunity for our progress in the path of holiness.  Grieve yes, with all the assorted emotions that go along with that.  But in the end acceptance.  Protest, resignation, acceptance.

I think sometimes we need to detach from our delusions that we are somehow getting ourselves to heaven by suffering.

The key words here were "getting ourselves to heaven by our suffering.  Only God can get us to heaven.  We can only cooperate. 

Is that better explanation what I think?  I am very bad at communicating on forums it seems.  And also, these discussions have been a marvelous thing for challenging my thoughts on things, broadens my outlook.  Very good. 

[Patricia]

I am very bad at communicating on forums it seems.  And also, these discussions have been a marvelous thing for challenging my thoughts on things, broadens my outlook.  Very good.  thumbs up

Quite the opposite . I think you are a very good communicator. And very tolerant with me when  I jump up in with a counter argument to our discussions. I appreciate that.

[Bailey2]

I like counter-arguments.  They help us grow.      So have at it!       I have lots to learn!   
And I mean that with all sincerity.
I can't tell you how much I learned on the JPII and VatII thread!

[Patricia]

Jesus only suffered the cross one day, not his whole life!

Bailey, don't mean to rake this up again, but I found a quote where a Saint asks Our Lord exactly what you said above and I thought you'd be interested in reading what she said and His response.

'One day Jesus Christ appeared to Sister Magdalene Orsini, who had been suffering a heavy affliction for a long time, under the form of a crucifix, to comfort her by the remembrance of his Passion, and to animate her to bear her cross with patience. She said to him: "But Thou, my Lord, wast only three hours on the cross, while I have suffered this pain for many years." Then our Lord from the cross replied: "Ignorant creature that Thou art! from the first moment that I was in the womb of Mary I suffered all that I had afterwards to suffer in my death." "Christ," says Novarinus, "even in the womb of his mother, had the impression of the cross on his mind; so that no sooner was he born than he might be said to have the principality on his shoulders." So, then, My Redeemer, throughout Thy whole life I shall find Thee nowhere but on the cross: "Lord, I find Thee nowhere but on the cross," said Dragone Ostiense. Yes, for the cross on which Jesus Christ died was ever in his mind to torment him. Even whilst sleeping, says Bellarmine, the sight of the cross was present to the heart of Jesus: "Christ had his cross always before his eyes. When he slept, his heart watched; nor was it ever free from the sight of the cross."

St. Alphonsus Maria de Liguori

[Bailey2]

Yep, looks like you were right and I saw the light.   

[Shin]

Yep, looks like you were right and I saw the light.   

'

Ooo, you say that so humbly!   

[Bailey2]

I meant it sincerely! 

[Shin]

I meant it sincerely! 

So did I!