Food for Thought: Natural Good vs. Supernatural Good

[Brigid]

'Every good work which we perform through our own natural powers causes us to refrain from the corresponding sin; but without grace it cannot contribute to our sanctification.'
St. Mark the Ascetic

Back to the original for a minute:  I thought grace was abundant and shines on both the good and the bad?  Isn't it possible that God uses the charity done as a means to Him?  You know, those who seek with a sincere heart?  (am I in trouble yet?   ).   Remember, I am one who does not think Saint's statements are always fully correct.   

Not in trouble quite yet.

I personally think that He not only uses charity as a means to Him, but that He wants us to perform charity so that we are being His 'Hands'. Although He can use miraculous means, He wants us to show  our attachment to Jesus.
Yes, Scripture does say that the sun does shine on both the good and the bad, however Scripture also says that we need baptism in order to receive the Holy Spirit. It additionally says that we must follow all His Commandments in which more than loving others as we would have them love us is part.

[Bailey2]

Yes, Scripture does say that the sun does shine on both the good and the bad, however Scripture also says that we need baptism in order to receive the Holy Spirit. It additionally says that we must follow all His Commandments in which more than loving others as we would have them love us is part.

Back to that other thread!!!!  Make haste!   

[Brigid]

Yes, Scripture does say that the sun does shine on both the good and the bad, however Scripture also says that we need baptism in order to receive the Holy Spirit. It additionally says that we must follow all His Commandments in which more than loving others as we would have them love us is part.

Back to that other thread!!!!  Make haste!   

Huh? Which thread?

[martin]

Back to that other thread!!!!  Make haste!   boxing rotfl

You don’t escape that easily Baily2.   

I think what we’re getting at here is motive or rather the belief that inspires the action.
For instance some one counselling a girl to have an abortion may well think she has the welfare of the girl at heart and even believe she is doing a good act. She is acting according to her belief. The same person could then go and feed the hungry without having to alter the belief that inspired the first action.
What an atheist believes to be good may sometimes overlap with what a saint considers good but what inspires one is the archenemy of what inspires the other.
That’s why purely natural motives can’t claim any supernatural reward. Those actions inspired by grace merit a reward. Likewise those actions inspired by another spirit other than God’s (even if the action looks good) at best don’t merit any reward and at worst condemnation.       

[Bailey2]

Brigid, I meant the thread about John Paul II.   

That’s why purely natural motives can’t claim any supernatural reward. Those actions inspired by grace merit a reward. Likewise those actions inspired by another spirit other than God’s (even if the action looks good) at best don’t merit any reward and at worst condemnation.

Well Martinfegan, I have never known anyone with pure motives!      Inspired by grace and inspired by nature cannot be separated.   It's a mixed bag whatever you do.

So then we get back to the "seeking God with a sincere heart;"  thing......not  "I'm set in my beliefs and therefore what I do is right."  Saints and unbelievers do overlap in deeds.  But even the gravest of mistakes is forgivable to those who seek the truth with a sincere heart according to the catechism.  Conversely, not everyone who does it all "right" by the law enters heaven either according to Jesus.  Oh boy, who is who?  So, I guess we all just better get on our knees and hope for the best, no?   

[Brigid]

"

seeking God with a sincere heart;"

Certainly, but [see below]

even the gravest of mistakes is forgivable to those who seek the truth with a sincere heart

How can we be sure of His forgiveness (due to our sincere heart) unless one has access to the Sacrament of Reconciliation? How can we know that we are a child of God unless we are baptized, besides Jesus told us to be baptized and said that "he who hears you, hears me". So a non-Christian (non-follower of Christ) isn't hearing Him. He is possibly following what is written on his heart, but not receiving His sanctifying grace.

[Bailey2]

I'm just quoting the catechism, about the sincere heart thing............         

I think we all came to some kind of impasse on that other thread.   Where it was for me was that the journey to truth is a process and a person can be anywhere along that path..... if they want to be on that path (ie. they are seeking with a sincere heart).  An atheist is not on that path because they have made a decision already (ie. no God) and their good deeds flow usually from some sort of philosophy.  I believe pragmatism is the order of the day now. 

As for the forgiveness due to sincere heart without the Sacrament of Reconciliation.  I don't know.  I always go by "for man it is not possible but for God all things are possible" and then I just leave it alone and trust He can figure it all out, assessing motive that is.   

And perhaps technically incorrect, I think sanctifying grace is abundant everywhere and is constantly being showered on everyone.  It's just some people have good solid raincoats instead of ones with holes in them.   

[Brigid]

It's just some people have good solid raincoats instead of ones with holes in them.   

  I hope I have a holely (holy) raincoat!

[Bailey2]

It's just some people have good solid raincoats instead of ones with holes in them.   

  I hope I have a holely (holy) raincoat!

Too funny Brigid; I didn't even think of that!
But I think the holes in your raincoat are so big that the entire blasted raincoat will eventually fall off and you will be drenched!