Open Confessions

[martin]

Thinking about what Patricia said in her post entitled “A Funny Sign”

My church has a similar sign ' Judas left the Mass early'.   Also for the restrooms the signs are 'Adam' and 'Eve'. The metal door handle to open the Confessional door is in the shape of a  snake to resemble sin. Inside the confessional on the walls are written the Cardinal sins. The confessional has two choices, either to face the priest or a screen.

Do you think open confession is a good or bad thing? I personally think it a bad thing and should be abolished for the following reasons.
A)   It leaves the priest vulnerable to becoming overly familiar with women and I’ve read that certain satanic cults have   used this situation specifically to tempt priests. They do this by sending female followers to open confessionals and over time build a relationship with their target priest eventually hoping to lead him away from his vows. This has happened to 3 priests in our city and I suspect that 2 of these started in the confessional.

B)   The fact that the penitent in some cases has no option but to face the priest may make it more difficult to confess and even deter people from going to confession altogether.
I personally feel that open confessions have been a grave error in judgment by church leaders and can’t find one positive benefit that could outweigh the negative…. Does anyone agree?

[Patricia]

Yes, I think open confessionals should be a choice for men, but women should choose the screen.  I usually choose the open confession if its an old priest, but come to think about what Martin said,  I think I'll stick to the screen from now on, old or young priest.

[Brigid]

Although I haven't personally had any experience like that in an open confessional I would imagine it can certainly happen - also with young'uns. Also I would think that priests (and the confessee) can become used to thinking that it's the human aspect of the priest that is giving absolution - rather similar in some aspects to the priest turning around to the people during a Mass as if he were an entertainer.

I have felt b) whenever I've had to do 'open confession'. I really dislike it! Maybe the 'there are no mortal sins' crowd like it for that very reason.

[Bailey2]

What are you all meaning by "open confession?"   

[martin]

What are you all meaning by "open confession?"   Huh?

You know when you go into confession and it's more like a room with priest sitting on one chair and you sit facing him on another face to face..

[Bailey2]

What are you all meaning by "open confession?"   Huh?

You know when you go into confession and it's more like a room with priest sitting on one chair and you sit facing him on another face to face..

I don't know any other kind of confessional.  Except in the very old churches, they all have been modified to offer BOTH behind a screen or face to face.  Is that what you meant?  I thought it may be when you have a penance service and everyone is going to confession together with multiple priests.

[martin]

I have felt b) whenever I've had to do 'open confession'. I really dislike it! Maybe the 'there are no mortal sins' crowd like it for that very reason.

 This may be why some priests are resorting to (what I call) special offers, where the priest announces that if you come to confession today you only have to tell one sin and you will be forgiven all the others automatically.
I don't think that's even a valid confession

[martin]

I don't know any other kind of confessional.  Except in the very old churches, they all have been modified to offer BOTH behind a screen or face to face.  Is that what you meant?  I thought it may be when you have a penance service and everyone is going to confession together with multiple priests.

Yes that's the one I meant. Some churches now don't offer the old form at all.

[Bailey2]

Ah,  well you know what I'm going to say....... right?   

I did my life confession face to face.  Meant a lot to me that way.  Behind a screen with an anonymous priest would have been like keeping the sins hidden rather than out in the open.  Presently, I confess to my spiritual director, the one who heard that first confession after two months of pushing for it.  Sometimes I confess in his office, which actually has a window in the door (he installed them on all the office windows because of the sex abuse problems).  So there you have it.   

I find penance services odd and not very confidential.  I have heard instructions that this form is not for those with serious sins but only venial sins (and that's why only confess a few).  I think however like anything else, abuses on that occur.  However, I know women who were molested in confessionals, being lured in week after week with the priest being sure he was a constant behind the screen.  Abuses can occur in any way with any form............

But generally speaking, you know me......... whatever is OK with the Church and whatever facilitates conversion for the person is good.

[Patricia]

I have seen different kinds of confessionals. When I was in India, we always had  a screen separating us form the priest, which is the best I think. (Now that Martin has got me thinking about it). When I came here,  the first parish I went to had only a screen and darkened room, so there was no way for the priest to see or be seen, only heard.  Really good. Next parish I went to , the priest heard my confession while he was at his desk, and I on the chair opposite. Now the present parish I go to has the option of open or screen.

Come to think of it, what Martin says is true. The priest must be protected from being over familiar with women and thus risking  his own soul. Women probably don't realize  what risk they may be placing even innocently. And the satanic cults using this is highly possible. When I went for an open confession since I was comfortable with the priest being old, the priest had closed his eyes all the time.  He had devised his own way of keeping his eyes mortified. So next time its screen for me. Thanks for getting me to think, Martin.

[martin]

whatever facilitates conversion for the person is good.

Baily2.... Maybe in an ideal world yes but in the present dangerous climate I believe it's not worth the risk and thats what it really is, A risk.

So next time its screen for me. Thanks for getting me to think, Martin.

 And thakyou too Patricia for bringing it to mind in your post.

[Bailey2]

Do you think open confession is a good or bad thing? I personally think it a bad thing and should be abolished for the following reasons.
A)   It leaves the priest vulnerable to becoming overly familiar with women and I’ve read that certain satanic cults have   used this situation specifically to tempt priests. They do this by sending female followers to open confessionals and over time build a relationship with their target priest eventually hoping to lead him away from his vows. This has happened to 3 priests in our city and I suspect that 2 of these started in the confessional.

B)   The fact that the penitent in some cases has no option but to face the priest may make it more difficult to confess and even deter people from going to confession altogether.
I personally feel that open confessions have been a grave error in judgment by church leaders and can’t find one positive benefit that could outweigh the negative…. Does anyone agree?

Hmm......
A) Women try to tempt priests in the workplace, through counseling sessions, and after every mass; just as men have tried to tempt me in counseling settings where sensitive information is also disclosed.   But, I also know of priests who have targeted women to lead them into a situations breeding familiarity so that he can break his vows.  In either case,  HE is in the position of authority and therefore more culpable.  The priest is responsible for himself...... in any situation.  Doesn't matter if some Satanic cult sends sirens to him....... or some unhappily married women finds him attractive..... or if he finds a woman attractive and deludes himself into believing that as a man he can't control himself and therefore it is her fault.     Temptations will inevitably occur...... in and out of the confessional.  

B) Screened confessions should be made available; both are supposed to be provided.

C) If we trust the church doesn't make errors in some things (celibate priests) perhaps we should trust them in others even if we disagree.    

[martin]

Temptations will inevitably occur...... in and out of the confessional. 

My point is that the ones concerning the confessional can be easily avoided by using the traditional way.
All things holy (especially all things holy) should be protected from becoming occasions of sin.
Even we who are not religious are meant to avoid near occasions of sin. In fact it's one of the conditions for receiving absolution. I agree the priest should be responsible for his own actions and for that reason he should be careful concerning this possible occasion.

If we trust the church doesn't make errors in some things (celibate priests) perhaps we should trust them in others even if we disagree.   

I do trust that the church can't err in her dogmatic teachings but I believe that leaders can err in their judgement. I believe open confession was an error of judgement and an uncalled for break with tradition. Celibate priesthood has been a Long held tradition and when tradition stands the test of a few hundred years I believe it becomes a dogma.

[Bailey2]

Well dear, I think we are going to have to agree to disagree on this one.  

The body is the temple of the Holy Spirit; I know nothing that can be holier than that...... except God Himself.
And I can only say that I know for fact that the traditional trappings that surround the practice of the sacrament (ie. screens) have not in the past prevented abuse-- verbal or sexual.  They also have not been the tradition of the practice of the sacrament except since the middle ages..... oh yes, the practice originated in Ireland I believe.    

And on a personal note, I consider face-to-face confession a welcome relief and would not be inclined to practice it in other ways without undue stress.  I also know people who feel the same way because of the claustrophobic feel and "darkness" of that kind of setting and for some, experiences they have had there.  So, I think the Church was wise to create options for everyone.  

Celibate priesthood is another perhaps "hands-off" topic for this forum!  

[martin]

Even though it’s not the flavor of the month where I live I guess I’m just an old traditionalist at heart (I can picture the surprised look on your face).   
But just to prove I’m not too set in my ways, If I were pope I’d make it a rule (in fact I think I’d make it a dogma) that anyone wanting open confession would fill out a form stating their reasons, enclose a Dr certificate proving claustrophobia, have it signed by their great grandparents and then hand deliver it in person to me in Rome… Surely you can’t get fairer than that. 
But until then I’m agreeing to differ. Can't find a white flag smiley so will wave this bell instead   

Getting late here so good night all   

[Patricia]

If a priest wants to stay chaste he must avoid undue interaction with women, is what I feel. So screen in a confessional is just one little way to help. Besides he must also avoid socializing with women outside the confessional. Even the Catholic woman should know her boundaries while talking with a priest. She should be reserved and respectful and not too jovial with him. I was watching a woman talking to a young priest in our parish the other day, and felt she was standing too close.  Not that she had anything inappropriate in mind, but it's respectful to the dignity of a priest  to keep more of a distance from him,  physical and emotional.  This is my opinion. Sometimes it is not possible to avoid socializing, but a certain reserve must be maintained.

G'night Martin.