Prayer

[Patricia]

Sometimes you need to lose something in order to gain another...as every loss is a gain.

I had to come to a place where I accepted that life dishes out what it dishes out and God holds my hand through it.

Your experiences are encouraging to me and I will pass on this encouragement to my friend.    

[martin]

I had to come to a place where I accepted that life dishes out what it dishes out and God holds my hand through it.  But that came after a lot of fist shaking and a mistaken notion that He was punishing me or purging me (by not letting me have sleep and so let my health deteriorate, thus affecting the children)--sorry can't believe God does those things, as you all know.

Hello Baily. Me again. 

I do know you have a dislike for words such as  punish and purge. I mostly prefer the word "Chastise" rather than "punish" as I read once that the word "Chastise" is from the word "Chasten" which means to make clean or purify. So it seems what God is doing by allowing certain circumstances to come about or persist, is solely for our good because He loves us enogh to clean us up a bit. I think we use the word "punish" because from our perspective that's what we experience it as.  On God's part though, it must be an act of love in the same way that we chastise our little ones for their good even though they too perceive it as punishment.

Purging.  Now I do like that word. Reminds me of the refiners fire. The Silversmith producing pure silver from the furnace after burning away all the dross and impurities. So if God does indeed see all our troubles and even permits them, but, like you say,  holds our hand through them, then I would indeed call what is taking place, "a purging"  of sorts. If these things weren't purging us then why would God who loves us ever permit them in the first place? If they really all where just happening by chance and God was merely a bystander with no control over these events other than to console us through them, then that would place those events outside His omnipotence and we, poor things, would be at the mercy of chance rather than at the mercy of God.

I find great consolation in the fact that God is permitting every single event in my life for the sole purpose of purging me and making me better than I was before I received the purging. And I'll even call it punishment for the joy of knowing that He cares enough about me to punish me. 

How did that come across my dear sister Baily?     
I hope if I've said this just to be contrary, that the Lord will purge me of this defect.
Nah.... I don't think I did, cause I didn't even put on me boxing gloves.   

[RachelKH]

I find great consolation in the fact that God is permitting every single event in my life for the sole purpose of purging me and making me better than I was before I received the purging. And I'll even call it punishment for the joy of knowing that He cares enough about me to punish me.

I am printing this out to read every day, Martin.  Such wisdom, such peace.

I had to replace my black ink cartridge I've been printing out so much I'm gleaning from this site!

[Shin]

'He who prays with understanding patiently accepts circumstances, whereas he who resents them has not yet attained pure prayer.'

St. Mark the Ascetic

A quote that just popped up from Saints' Quotes.

So much heart moving said here! 

[Bailey2]

Hello Baily. Me again. 

I do know you have a dislike for words such as  punish and purge. I mostly prefer the word "Chastise" rather than "punish" as I read once that the word "Chastise" is from the word "Chasten" which means to make clean or purify. So it seems what God is doing by allowing certain circumstances to come about or persist, is solely for our good because He loves us enogh to clean us up a bit. I think we use the word "punish" because from our perspective that's what we experience it as.  On God's part though, it must be an act of love in the same way that we chastise our little ones for their good even though they too perceive it as punishment.

Purging.  Now I do like that word. Reminds me of the refiners fire. The Silversmith producing pure silver from the furnace after burning away all the dross and impurities. So if God does indeed see all our troubles and even permits them, but, like you say,  holds our hand through them, then I would indeed call what is taking place, "a purging"  of sorts. If these things weren't purging us then why would God who loves us ever permit them in the first place? If they really all where just happening by chance and God was merely a bystander with no control over these events other than to console us through them, then that would place those events outside His omnipotence and we, poor things, would be at the mercy of chance rather than at the mercy of God.

I find great consolation in the fact that God is permitting every single event in my life for the sole purpose of purging me and making me better than I was before I received the purging. And I'll even call it punishment for the joy of knowing that He cares enough about me to punish me. 

How did that come across my dear sister Baily?     
I hope if I've said this just to be contrary, that the Lord will purge me of this defect.
Nah.... I don't think I did, cause I didn't even put on me boxing gloves.   

Hi brother Martin!   
First, I have no problem at all believing life simply dishes out, by random chance, adversity as well as blessings.  The world is incomplete and permeated by sin and also blessing.  I think God, by virtue of his promise (not ineptitude) must uphold free will and also honor the things he created.  "He saw that they were good (Genesis),"  not "He saw that they needed tweaking from time to time to effect a purpose."  I just don't see God as a master manipulator.  I think that is a bit deterministic.  Dark nights being the exception of course because that is a matter of relationship with a real Person, who can come and go as He pleases.

Second, I think we need to cooperate in developing an attitude of holiness, which means a purging of our attachments.  We can use these random events to cooperate with that or reject that opportunity.  I really don't think God hands them to us.  I don't think God gives us only what we can endure.  Some people break under what they have to endure and to believe that one blames the victim for not being strong enough in their faith rather than they broke because no one should have to endure so much.  I don't think God says, "Ah-ha, this is for your own good."  I know that flys in the face of some of the cherished beliefs here...... but I can reconcile a random series of events caused by acts of nature or other people's (or mine) sinfulness faster than I can reconcile a God of manipulation.

Third, I think the concept of chastisement is an ancient one designed to explain and "control" things that weren't understood at the time.  The concept came long before the Old Testament was written and stayed long after the New Testament was written.  I think our concept of a God with a "rod and staff" to beat (chastise) us into submission is simply that, our conceptualization (one I don't have obviously).  God is the God of no name, the One not seen, the One who is mystery.  I just don't see Him as big daddy.  I see Him as awe.

OK, now that I've gotten everyone all riled up.  Go for it!      

[Patricia]

Get the popcorn. It is on.

[Bailey2]

 

[martin]

Get the popcorn. It is on.

 

Patricia when I can stop laughing I'll be able to think straight. 

It's not fair though. Baily and me can't eat popcorn with these boxing gloves on.   

[Shin]

Get the popcorn. It is on.

 

Patricia when I can stop laughing I'll be able to think straight. 

It's not fair though. Baily and me can't eat popcorn with these boxing gloves on.   

I love boxing gloves.. It's such a pleasure to be able to hit something without hurting your hand. Even if it's harder to eat!

[Bailey2]

I'm still laughing!   

[odhiambo]

Is there a technique to prayers? like how to empty oneself completely of trivials and concentrate on God who is within us?

[Patricia]

I'd like an answer to that since it seems to be a common problem. The Rosary helps with that since it is a mental and vocal prayer and minimizes distraction. Gazing at a picture of Jesus or Mary while praying should help . To keep the senses occupied with spiritual things and give no way to trivial thinking is the trick. Any suggestions?

[odhiambo]

'It is said that the highest state of prayer is reached when the intellect goes beyond the flesh and the World, and while praying is utterly free from matter and form. He who maintains this state has truly attained unceasing prayer.'

St. Maximos the Confessor

[Shin]

Is there a technique to prayers? like how to empty oneself completely of trivials and concentrate on God who is within us?

I wish I could advise. But in this I have to sit still and learn.

All I can say is at least, pray to learn to pray better, and be thankful for what one has.

[odhiambo]

Is there a technique to prayers? like how to empty oneself completely of trivials and concentrate on God who is within us?

I wish I could advise. But in this I have to sit still and learn.

All I can say is at least, pray to learn to pray better, and be thankful for what one has.

I will heed that advice Shin.