Prayer

[martin]

As for the obscure Saints, you know, we liberals have to pretend we are knowledgeable.  So, we purchase books like The Wisdom of the Saints, which is a volume of quotes.  Oh dear, now I have given the secret away and Shin will surely find the book and post all the quotes on the quote section!

   

Baily2 those golden retrievers are beautiful dogs. A friend of mine has one and sometimes if he see's me out he'll come dandering up (he's a bit over weight) and just stand wagging his tail waiting to get patted and made a fuss of.

I have two of the three volumes of Elizabeth Seton's letters;

Will you post some of these (that's if you have any stored on your computer) cause sometimes the letters are a great way of getting a feel for the saint.

I have been most attracted to a mentor of Elizabeth's, St. Jane Francis de Chantal....... probably because this Saint doubted the existence of God, Jesus, and the afterlife for her entire life to her death..

Was thinking about our dear friend Maryslittleflower while reading that.. It's a powerful consolation at times to know that the saints too had terrible trials of faith.

My maternal grandmother was born in Mohill, County Leitrim.  Visited there when I was thirteen.  So, I can put up with your blarney but I long put down the shillelagh as a means of punishment.   Grin

How did I know there was a bit of Irish blood there?   

[Brigid]

I liked that St. Seton was Episcopalian before she converted. Tell me though, did she yell at her boys? What of St. Jane de Chantal? Did she yell at her brood? Did St. Vincent de Paul talk of her holiness while her kids were still living with her or after? It seems to me that yelling at your kids may  even be a sign of holiness. It shows that you care about what they do.

In my limited experience, if devotion is equated with feeling, then an awful lot of people don't have any devotion (including many Saints). Also, when people have demanding children (or spouses), there isn't as much alone time to pray in the fashion that those people might wish (excluding those who are able to rise before dawn ). In that circumstance, "arrow" prayers or partial Rosaries are a good way to pray, at least for the time being. So Bailey, you don't have to feel left out. I'm sure you do something like those. And you can be sure to join Martin's list  .

[martin]

PS....Talking of obscure saints, did any of you ever hear of Blessed Keteri Tekakwitha.
She was a native American Mowhawk who was made Blessed by JPII. She happens to be on my invoking list for the soul reason that my dear dad used to keep a picture and prayer of her in his wallet.

[martin]

It seems to me that yelling at your kids may  even be a sign of holiness.

Brigid that just sounded so so funny 

[Bailey2]

In my limited experience, if devotion is equated with feeling, then an awful lot of people don't have any devotion (including many Saints). Also, when people have demanding children (or spouses), there isn't as much alone time to pray in the fashion that those people might wish (excluding those who are able to rise before dawn Roll Eyes ). In that circumstance, "arrow" prayers or partial Rosaries are a good way to pray, at least for the time being. So Bailey, you don't have to feel left out. I'm sure you do something like those. And you can be sure to join Martin's list  Grin .

OK Brigid, I'll take Sainthood!  

For Mothers:  
"My little Daughter is the object of all others which I most fear to present to you, tho' I dare say she is the one you most wish to see, she possesses from her Mother a most ungovernable temper and with all my endeavours is past all management  My William (husband) leaves her to me, My Father tells me, conquer her by gentleness. Post and my Sister recommends Wipping, which is to me an unnatural resource, and the last I shall have recourse to--- send me a word of advice on this subject, or rather make hast to set me right, and assist me in a case which demands more resolution, than any situation I have hitherto experienced"   elizabeth seton to Eliza Sadler; from Long Island, 1797  
(guess she wasn't a Saint yet  )

And for Maryslittleflower:  "She was full of faith, and yet all her life long had been tormented by thoughts against it..... But for all that suffering her face never lost its serenity, nor did she once relax in fidelity God asked of her.  And so I regard her as one of the holiest souls I have ever met on earth."  St. Vincent de Paul about St Jane Francis de Chantal.

[martin]

And for Maryslittleflower:  "She was full of faith, and yet all her life long had been tormented by thoughts against it..... But for all that suffering her face never lost its serenity, nor did she once relax in fidelity God asked of her.  And so I regard her as one of the holiest souls I have ever met on earth."  St. Vincent de Paul about St Jane Francis de Chantal.

That is so moving... Thank you Baily2.

I once asked a very saintly priest (now deceased God Bless his soul) to pray for a woman who had asked for prayers and he said to me that any woman who bears a child and endevours to bring that child up in the faith is already sanctified and he said so this woman who I will pray for is thrice sanctified. (She had 3 kids)

That's why I say you ladiies are already saints so all you have to do now is..Well.....Just act like one. 

[Brigid]

I once asked a very saintly priest (now deceased God Bless his soul) to pray for a woman who had asked for prayers and he said to me that any woman who bears a child and endevours to bring that child up in the faith is already sanctified and he said so this woman who I will pray for is thrice sanctified. (She had 3 kids)

Our Lord, in Genesis seems to think that "bringing forth children" (bearing and bringing up children) will return women to the state of sanctity they were in before the Fall.

[Bailey2]

I presume because of the suffering of childbirth or the 18 LONG years!!   
I suspect the former is no longer sanctifying in western societies due to epidurals.  However, I think the following 18 yrs makes up for it these days!   

[martin]

Brigid I didn't know if that priest had any theological grounds to base his statement on but he was such a holy man that I just believed him. Now you have answered it.

[Patricia]

Our Lord, in Genesis seems to think that "bringing forth children" (bearing and bringing up children) will return women to the state of sanctity they were in before the Fall.

I wish. When my children are misbehaving or going in the wrong direction,  I feel terribly guilty as I feel that I am responsible for their actions since I am responsible for their upbringing.  So if they are not behaving well or being good or being holy I feel I have gone wrong as a mother somewhere. Its not that I'm paranoid about their behaviour, its only when they seem to go the wrong way  away from God.

[Brigid]

I wish. When my children are misbehaving or going in the wrong direction,  I feel terribly guilty as I feel that I am responsible for their actions since I am responsible for their upbringing.  So if they are not behaving well or being good or being holy I feel I have gone wrong as a mother somewhere. Its not that I'm paranoid about their behaviour, its only when they seem to go the wrong way  away from God.

Maybe that feeling is sanctifying, too. He must feel that way. And the anxiety we feel when they are out on their own and no longer listening to their parents is certainly sanctifying. Look at St. Monica!

[Patricia]

Hope the final outcome is that of St. Monica. Conversion of the children is the best blessing one could see in a lifetime.

[Patricia]

Has anyone experienced this?  You pray a lot for something and quite the opposite keeps happening.. It is as if your prayers were coming to naught, or as if your prayers were causing mishaps to happen.  It has happened to me before. I'm posting this because I was talking to my friend yesterday ( the one who needs prayers for a job etc ) and she told me that the day she prays earnestly, says her Rosary or prays to Our Lady , that is the day more problems are caused.  I told her , according to my reasoning, that the devil does not want prayer and thus causes obstacles in order for her to stop praying.  I told her no matter what,  to persevere in prayer and not to give up. I'm worried that she may stop praying because of discouragement.

[Jacki]

I am not much of a prayer person (I am the prime example of A.D.D) but reading Louis Granda's Sinner Guide ( I try to read a chapter a day) ALWAYS inspires me...it was even one of the reasons I came back to grace with God as I found the book and instantly came back to God after being dormat for years.
Also,helping people or giving gifts in Jesus's name always makes me feel so close with God.

But if I do pray, I usually offer up my prayers and ask Mother Mary and the Arch Angels and a few saints to pray for me and I always imagine holding up my small and impure heart to Jesus. God is my father and he knows his daughter well and I know he will never abandon me. For He is mine and I am His.

[Bailey2]

Has anyone experienced this?  You pray a lot for something and quite the opposite keeps happening.. It is as if your prayers were coming to naught, or as if your prayers were causing mishaps to happen.  It has happened to me before. I'm posting this because I was talking to my friend yesterday ( the one who needs prayers for a job etc ) and she told me that the day she prays earnestly, says her Rosary or prays to Our Lady , that is the day more problems are caused.  I told her , according to my reasoning, that the devil does not want prayer and thus causes obstacles in order for her to stop praying.  I told her no matter what,  to persevere in prayer and not to give up. I'm worried that she may stop praying because of discouragement.

Knowing my need for proper sleep in order to keep emotionally even, when I was pregnant with our first child I prayed for a baby that would sleep, meaning I could deal with the usual 6 weeks or so of frequent wakings but then a tapering off because the help would be gone.  I received a baby who almost died at birth, then had unbearable colic, then at 6 weeks got his first ear infection, then had surgery at 9 mo and 2 yrs., and then had night terrors until he was about 11.  My moods deteriorated.  My health deteriorated.  It was a tough 11 years, especially when the second came 2.5 yrs later who slept but was hyperactive (truly hyperactive-- and out of a crib and playpen by 16 mo--climbed out).  We had no family support.
The hyperactive one is the hockey player.  The oldest still isn't the best sleeper.  But now I get to sleep!  

I had to come to a place where I accepted that life dishes out what it dishes out and God holds my hand through it.  But that came after a lot of fist shaking and a mistaken notion that He was punishing me or purging me (by not letting me have sleep and so let my health deteriorate, thus affecting the children)--sorry can't believe God does those things, as you all know.

So my advice to her is pray, ask, yell, be mad, thank for little favors as they happen, do the best you can, know you are not the only one (that helped in my situation anyway), and know He is there with you.

[Jacki]

I'm worried that she may stop praying because of discouragement.

If she stops praying the devil wins. You are right, the devil will do anything to stop prayers.
My mother says the trials from this prayer are more beneficial than the thing she is asking for in itself as God is allowing this happen and he is always with her, and like you said, he is giving her strength.

I remember reading in Sinner's Guide about a saint who was tortured so bad that his bones were exposed and the torturer put vingear and salt on them and he still didn't die, then they roasted him till his spirit parted and I told my mother this just crying. I asked my mom how could anyone do this to someone. And she said:
Someone people will be in closer union and more one with God when they die, do not pity them. God was with them during all of their tortues or no human could withstand what they went through alone.


So I hope your friend remembers that when she is suffering, God is always with her to give her any grace she needs.

Sometimes you need to lose something in order to gain another...as every loss is a gain.