Saints' Discussion Forums

God gave us free will as a gift.
Sin is a result of this free will.
We choose to sin rather than obey God’s commandment.
If, of my own volition, not wanting to sin anymore
 and recognizing the fact that I am weak, I give God back my free will.
I choose freely to give Him back His gift of free will.
 I really, really want Him to have it back.
 All I want is His Will to prevail in my life so that I sin no more.
Will He take it back?

Nope.

 Short and to the point  ;D
No matter how well intentioned, there is simply no giving back a gift, is that it?
Thanks Bailey

 :happyroll:

Practical Bailey answer. ;D

Odhiambo, you cannot give back if you have no choice.  And there would be no meaning in Christ's suffering; He would have suffered and rose from the dead for nothing.  Rejoice in your free will.  He used his free will also, and we follow!

Well, it has snowed 3 inches here, 8 up in the foothills, and they did NOT give the kids (and parents) a two hour delay.  So, I spent 20 minutes cleaning off the walkways and driveway and another 20 minutes cleaning off our son's car because there was ice under the snow.  Learned on FB that 3 kids were in accidents on the way to school; fortunately our son wasn't one of them  (he would have called).  But, after all that cleaning I took Bailey1 out into the snow and we ran and played for about an hour.  Now I'm ready to go back to bed!  But, have work to do so.........  :D

Ok Bailey, I see it better now, thanks.
It is something to do with "No pain, no gain".
To some extent, we have to earn Heaven.

No pain, no gain.   :happyroll: :happyroll: :rotfl: :rotflblue:

Sometimes I think there are some who get plenty of gain with no pain.  And I commit the sin of envy every time I think of them!   ;D

God will not take back our free will because it is His gift to us.

But what we can do is match our will with God's.

That is what Jesus is always doing.  His will is according to His Father's will.

 O:)

Good to see you around pebbles, welcome back  :)

Thanks!

I think I had an early Lent  ;D

It's not about God taking back our free will, but how we are to transform it to His will.  Like in this prayer.

(Sorry, but you are not allowed to access the gallery)

 O:)

But I will make the king stubborn, and he will not listen to you, no matter how many terrifying things I do in Egypt. Then I will bring severe punishment on Egypt and lead the tribes of my people out of the land.

Exodus 7:3-4
Good News Translation (GNT).

From the above it would appear that the King had no real choice in the matter; The Lord Himself said He was the one to make the King stubborn so as to punish the Egyptians!
I have been trying to understand this. Can anyone throw some light on it?

Exodus 7:3-4
Good News Translation (GNT).

From the above it would appear that the King had no real choice in the matter; The Lord Himself said He was the one to make the King stubborn so as to punish the Egyptians and also that they may know He is God.
I have been trying to understand this. Can anyone throw some light on it?

Well I know one answer I've heard to it, but, actually I don't care for it too much so I want to think about it a bit too. :D

ok.

But I will indurate his heart, and will multiply my signs and wonders in the Land of Ægypt, and he will not hear you: and I will put in my hand upon Ægypt, and will bring forth my army and people the children of Israel out of the Land of Ægypt, by very great judgments. And the Ægyptians shall know that I am the Lord, which have stretched forth my hand upon Ægypt, and have brought forth the children of Israel out of the midst of them.

Exodus 7:3-4 Original Douai

Indurate I read is another word for harden. Also, make callous, obdurate, unfeeling.

It does not seem to me that by making a man more stubborn God takes away the man's freedom. Freedom is in the will. Our emotions and tendencies are separate matters. They are separate parts of us. While we may have an extreme desire to do one thing or another, the will is still free to choose one thing or another. :D

Certainly God knows what Pharaoh will do, all the more stubborn. But this hardly matters. God knows all our actions and this does not take away freedom of will. So too often enough we know what another person will do in response to something we do, but this does not take it away.

Later:

'And Pharao seeing that rest was given, hardened his own heart, and did not hear them, as the Lord had commanded.'

Exodus 8:15

The original Douai commentary suggests in its commentary, a removal of grace which otherwise might have prevented the stubbornness, which rather I think would come naturally to Pharao given he is an enemy of God. It cites St. Gregory: God is said to indurate by his justice, when he doth not mollify a reprobate heart. And St. Isidore: Sin is permitted for punishment of sin, when a sinner, for his dessert forsaken of God, goeth into another worse sin.

I seem to recall another saint saying that the worst punishment for sin is sin, i.e. to be permitted to go from one to another, and deeper and deeper into sins.

From what I learned, God did this to manifest his power.  That it is He who liberated Israel from captivity from the Egyptians and not by their own power or by any benevolence of any pharaohs. 

 ;D

I really like this idea pebbles!  :D

I understand, put this way. Thanks  :)