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'the flesh'
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Topic: 'the flesh' (Read 5695 times)
Brigid
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'the flesh'
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March 18, 2011, 01:46:26 PM »
There are many references to “the flesh” in New Testament Scripture, especially in the letters of St. Paul. The phrase confuses some who think it synonymous with the physical body. It is true that there are many times when Scripture uses the word “flesh” to refer to the physical body. However when the definite article “the” is placed before the word “flesh” we are dealing with something else. Only very rarely does the Biblical phrase “the flesh” refer only to the physical body according to the Greek, eg. John 6:53; Phil 3:2; 1 John 4:2) , but almost always the phrase refers to something quite distinct from the physical body.
What then is meant by the term “the flesh”? Perhaps most plainly it refers to that part of us that is alienated from God. It is the rebellious, unruly and obstinate part of our inner self that is operative all the time. It is that part of us that does not want to be told what to do. It is stubborn, refuses correction, and does not want to have a thing to do with God. It bristles at limits and rules. It recoils at anything that might cause me to be diminished or something less than the center of the universe. The flesh hates to be under authority or to have to yield to anything other than its own wishes and desires. The flesh often desires something simply because it is forbidden. The Protestants often call the flesh our “sin nature” which is not a bad term in summarizing what the flesh is. In Catholic tradition the flesh is where concupiscence sets up shop. Concupiscence refers to the string inclination to sin that is in us as a result of the wound of Original Sin. If you do not think that your flesh is strong, just try to pray for five minutes and watch how quickly your mind wants to think of anything but God. Just try to fast or be less selfish and watch how your flesh goes to war.
The flesh is in direct conflict with the spirit. “The spirit” here refers not to the Holy Spirit but to the human spirit. The (human) spirit is that part of us which is open to God, which desires him and is drawn to him. It is that part of us which is attracted by goodness, beauty and truth, which yearns for completion in God and to see His face. Without the spirit we would be totally turned in on ourselves and consumed by the flesh. Thankfully our spirit, assisted by the Holy Spirit draws us to desire what is best, what is upright, good and helpful.
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For where thy treasure is, there is thy heart also.
Matt. 6:21
Shin
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Re: 'the flesh'
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Reply #1 on:
March 18, 2011, 04:37:18 PM »
The world, the flesh, and the devil.. the three enemies we have to battle against.
'As the light of the sun cannot enter into a vessel filled with earth, so the light of God cannot shine into a soul habituated to sins of the flesh: her vices shall continue to sleep with her till death.'
St. Alphonsus Maria de Liguori
'For we have learnt not to "have thought for the flesh to fulfil its desires." We are to "walk honourably as in the way", that is in Christ and in the enlightened conduct of the Lord's way, "not in revelling and drunkenness, not in debauchery and lasciviousness, not in strife and envy."'
St. Clement of Alexandria
'He who dwells continually within his own heart is detached from the attractions of this world, for he lives in the Spirit and cannot know the desires of the flesh. Such a man henceforward walks up and down within the fortress of the virtues which keep guard at all the gates of his purity. The assaults of the demons are now ineffective against him, even though the arrows of sensual desire reach as far as the doorways of his senses.'
St. Diadochos of Photiki
'My love of this life has been crucified, and there is no yearning in my for any earthly thing. Rather within me is the living water which says deep inside me: "Come to the Father." I no longer take pleasure in perishable food or in the delights of this world I want only God's bread, which is the flesh of Jesus Christ, formed from the seed of David, and for drink I crave his blood, which is love that cannot perish. Pray for me that I may obtain my desire. I have not written to you as a mere man would, but as one who knows the mind of God.'
St. Ignatius of Antioch
'Just as I will not save myself by the good works of the angels, likewise I will not be condemned for the bad and wicked thoughts which the bad angels, the world, and the flesh present to me.'
St. Ignatius of Loyola
'By what rule or manner can I bind this body of mine? By what precedent can I judge him? Before I can bind him he is let loose, before I can condemn him I am reconciled to him, before I can punish him I bow down to him and feel sorry for him. How can I hate him when my nature disposes me to love him? How can I break away from him when I am bound to him forever? How can I escape from him when he is going to rise with me? How can I make him incorrupt when he has received a corruptible nature? How can I argue with him when all the arguments of nature are on his side?'
'What is this mystery in me? What is the principle of this mixture of body and soul? How can I be my own friend and my own enemy? Speak to me! Speak to me, my yoke-fellow, my nature! I cannot ask anyone else about you. How can I remain uninjured by you? How can I escape the danger of my own nature? I have made a promise to Christ that I will fight you, yet how can I defeat your tyranny? But this I have resolved, namely, that I am going to master you.'
'And this is what the flesh might say in reply: "I will never tell you what you do not already know. I will speak the knowledge we both have. Within me is my begetter, the love of self. The fire that comes to me from outside is too much pampering and care. The fire within me is past ease and things long done. I conceived and give birth to sins, and they when born beget death by despair in their turn. And yet if you have learned the sure and rooted weakness within both you and me, you have manacled my hands. If you starve your longings, you have bound my feet, and they can travel no further. If you have taken up the yoke of obedience, you have cast my yoke aside. If you have taken possession of humility, you have cut off my head."'
St. John Climacus
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'Flores apparuerunt in terra nostra. . . Fulcite me floribus. (The flowers appear on the earth. . . stay me up with flowers. Sg 2:12,5)
Brigid
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Re: 'the flesh'
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Reply #2 on:
March 18, 2011, 05:13:26 PM »
IMO - It is important that we not fall into Manicheism, believing in a duality between the material world and the spiritual world. God created this world and it is what we do with it that is of God or not of Him.
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For where thy treasure is, there is thy heart also.
Matt. 6:21
Shin
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Re: 'the flesh'
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March 18, 2011, 05:19:53 PM »
Quote from: Brigid on March 18, 2011, 05:13:26 PM
IMO - It is important that we not fall into Manicheism, believing in a duality between the material world and the spiritual world. God created this world and it is what we do with it that is of God or not of Him.
St. Augustine is the antidote there!
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'Flores apparuerunt in terra nostra. . . Fulcite me floribus. (The flowers appear on the earth. . . stay me up with flowers. Sg 2:12,5)
Brigid
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Re: 'the flesh'
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March 18, 2011, 05:35:52 PM »
He knows all about it.
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For where thy treasure is, there is thy heart also.
Matt. 6:21
Shin
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Re: 'the flesh'
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Reply #5 on:
March 19, 2011, 04:40:25 PM »
God is good.
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'Flores apparuerunt in terra nostra. . . Fulcite me floribus. (The flowers appear on the earth. . . stay me up with flowers. Sg 2:12,5)
odhiambo
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Re: 'the flesh'
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Reply #6 on:
March 19, 2011, 07:14:50 PM »
Quote from: Brigid on March 18, 2011, 01:46:26 PM
There are many references to “the flesh” in New Testament Scripture, especially in the letters of St. Paul. The phrase confuses some who think it synonymous with the physical body. It is true that there are many times when Scripture uses the word “flesh” to refer to the physical body. However when the definite article “the” is placed before the word “flesh” we are dealing with something else. Only very rarely does the Biblical phrase “the flesh” refer only to the physical body according to the Greek, eg. John 6:53; Phil 3:2; 1 John 4:2) , but almost always the phrase refers to something quite distinct from the physical body.
What then is meant by the term “the flesh”? Perhaps most plainly it refers to that part of us that is alienated from God. It is the rebellious, unruly and obstinate part of our inner self that is operative all the time. It is that part of us that does not want to be told what to do. It is stubborn, refuses correction, and does not want to have a thing to do with God. It bristles at limits and rules. It recoils at anything that might cause me to be diminished or something less than the center of the universe. The flesh hates to be under authority or to have to yield to anything other than its own wishes and desires. The flesh often desires something simply because it is forbidden. The Protestants often call the flesh our “sin nature” which is not a bad term in summarizing what the flesh is. In Catholic tradition the flesh is where concupiscence sets up shop. Concupiscence refers to the string inclination to sin that is in us as a result of the wound of Original Sin. If you do not think that your flesh is strong, just try to pray for five minutes and watch how quickly your mind wants to think of anything but God. Just try to fast or be less selfish and watch how your flesh goes to war.
The flesh is in direct conflict with the spirit. “The spirit” here refers not to the Holy Spirit but to the human spirit. The (human) spirit is that part of us which is open to God, which desires him and is drawn to him. It is that part of us which is attracted by goodness, beauty and truth, which yearns for completion in God and to see His face. Without the spirit we would be totally turned in on ourselves and consumed by the flesh. Thankfully our spirit, assisted by the Holy Spirit draws us to desire what is best, what is upright, good and helpful.
You are right Brigid! One does tend to think of the 'flesh' exactly as you said,the physical body and yet that one word, depending on how it is used, has a whole lot of meaning:
It is behavior that is contrary to character of God. It is susceptibility to temptation. It is humanity. I think the Protestants have it right with their "sin nature" as you have told us. Are you sure it is the Protestants and not us who coined that fitting expression?
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Jesus, Jesus, Jesus!
Inspirational Quotes from the saints:
'If men but knew Thee, O my God!'
St. Ignatius of Loyola
“Late have I loved Thee,
O Beauty ever ancient, ever new,
late have I loved Thee!......”
St. Augustine of Hippo
Brigid
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Re: 'the flesh'
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Reply #7 on:
March 19, 2011, 09:14:54 PM »
Quote
Are you sure it is the Protestants and not us who coined that fitting expression?
No, I'm not sure at all, but in my experience I have only heard that phrase from protestant ministers.
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For where thy treasure is, there is thy heart also.
Matt. 6:21
Shin
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Re: 'the flesh'
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Reply #8 on:
March 20, 2011, 01:15:54 PM »
Hmm, while the term may be fitting taken alone, it's probably used because of a controversy with the Church at some point by them and so has an off meaning for at least some of them.
I'd have to look up about these things again.
«
Last Edit: March 20, 2011, 01:21:27 PM by Shin
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'Flores apparuerunt in terra nostra. . . Fulcite me floribus. (The flowers appear on the earth. . . stay me up with flowers. Sg 2:12,5)
Shin
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Re: 'the flesh'
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Reply #9 on:
March 20, 2011, 01:20:12 PM »
We must not get discouraged in the battle against the flesh!
Everyday we must have hope! And learn from our trials rather than be discouraged with them!
In the battle of Man vs. Brownie, ultimately Man must be the victor!
... I always think of St. Theodore the Studite, normally the most mild mannered of saints, finally perhaps at least getting angry about the cabbages.
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'Flores apparuerunt in terra nostra. . . Fulcite me floribus. (The flowers appear on the earth. . . stay me up with flowers. Sg 2:12,5)
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