Open Confessions

[Bailey2]

Even though it’s not the flavor of the month where I live I guess I’m just an old traditionalist at heart (I can picture the surprised look on your face).   
But just to prove I’m not too set in my ways, If I were pope I’d make it a rule (in fact I think I’d make it a dogma) that anyone wanting open confession would fill out a form stating their reasons, enclose a Dr certificate proving claustrophobia, have it signed by their great grandparents and then hand deliver it in person to me in Rome… Surely you can’t get fairer than that. 

    I am certainly glad you are not pope!!

[Bailey2]

If a priest wants to stay chaste he must avoid undue interaction with women, is what I feel. So screen in a confessional is just one little way to help. Besides he must also avoid socializing with women outside the confessional. Even the Catholic woman should know her boundaries while talking with a priest. She should be reserved and respectful and not too jovial with him. I was watching a woman talking to a young priest in our parish the other day, and felt she was standing too close.  Not that she had anything inappropriate in mind, but it's respectful to the dignity of a priest  to keep more of a distance from him,  physical and emotional.  This is my opinion. Sometimes it is not possible to avoid socializing, but a certain reserve must be maintained.

G'night Martin.

To a degree I agree.  But being there are an awful lot of women working with priests right now, I don't see how it is practical that they avoid them.  Nor do I think a man is somehow unable to control himself around women.  I expect my adolescent, testosterone filled sons to control themselves around women.  Why would I think a grown man can't do the same? ............. And people laugh together (hopefully).  

I see it as a matter of personal boundaries pertaining to authority positions.  It is unethical for me to be friends with the people who come to me for counseling..... even if they really want that badly and even if it is not sexually motivated.  And as a person in authority, it is my responsibility to see to it that the professional line is firm.  So I see that true for a priest.  And I am not sure they are trained well in this skill.  They either hide behind closed doors or high pedestals out of reach and cannot relate to people or they get too chummy.  Either way, they are then ineffective as priests.  Jesus was not chummy but neither was he aloof.  And horrors to the people of that time, He actually TOUCHED women.  So, I think there needs to be balance. 

[Patricia]

But being there are an awful lot of women working with priests right now, I don't see how it is practical that they avoid them.  Nor do I think a man is somehow unable to control himself around women.

Thats true. Can't avoid them.  But the priest needs to keep that aura of reserve around him.

I see it as a matter of personal boundaries pertaining to authority positions.

You understand better, Bailey, being in that position of authority. You get what I'm trying to say.

[Brigid]

I still know that I (and I'm sure many others) feel terrible and afraid of doing a face to face confession - especially with someone of the opposite gender. Some might feel fine with it - if they're in a profession that calls for it, if they are afraid of being in a screen-type confessional, etc. -  but there needs to be the option of a screen because if not some will just not go to confession . From what I've seen at my parish where one of the priests insists on face to face confession, the priest that has the screen is the one with long confessional lines.  

[Brigid]

I still know that I (and I'm sure many others) feel terrible and afraid of doing a face to face confession - especially with someone of the opposite gender where no screen is an option. Some might feel fine with it - if they're in a profession that calls for it, if they are afraid of being in a screen-type confessional, etc. -  but there needs to be the option of a screen because if not (and I've only venial sins) I'll just not go to confession. From what I've seen at my parish where one of the priests insists on face to face confession, the priest that has the screen is the one with long confessional lines.  

Even though it’s not the flavor of the month where I live I guess I’m just an old traditionalist at heart (I can picture the surprised look on your face).   
But just to prove I’m not too set in my ways, If I were pope I’d make it a rule (in fact I think I’d make it a dogma) that anyone wanting open confession would fill out a form stating their reasons, enclose a Dr certificate proving claustrophobia, have it signed by their great grandparents and then hand deliver it in person to me in Rome… Surely you can’t get fairer than that. 

[AutumnRose]

I always confess behind the screen to the Franciscan brothers. The confessional is split in 2, the penitent on one side, the priest on the other, a metal grill, 2 separate doors. I find this set-up the best way for me to confess my sins especially embarrassing ones
I have confessed face to face to my Oblate priest, who I have been in my Oblate group with for 4 years now. But I am very, very aware of boundaries. He is about my age, and I have been told I am an attractive woman (?? beats me!! ) and I am so careful about how I conduct myself around him, as with every other man, but more so. And careful not to be alone with him except in matters of confession

[martin]

But I am very, very aware of boundaries.

The word Boundaries sums it all up.
 As well as setting our own personal boundaries I feel there should be inbuilt boundaries that everyone can know, respect and adhere too. When it is left to the individual layperson or priest to set their own limits then there could well be as many variations of limits as there are people.
I remember once receiving a letter from the principal of my daughter’s school informing the parents that the pupils would no longer be having a day off on holy days of obligation. On inquiring if Mass would be celebrated in the school so as the pupils could fulfil their obligation, She said "No. The children should be left to decide for themselves and either go to mass before or after school."
I replied, In that case then can the pupils decide for themselves whether to wear the school uniform or not? Or can they choose to ignore the bell between lessons and decide for themselves whether to attend the next class or not.
“Of course not,” she said.
In that case I said, my daughter won’t be deciding for herself concerning mass and won’t be attending school on Holy days.

There are plenty of boundaries imposed for the smooth running of temporal affairs but when it comes to Spiritual things it seems anything goes.
Our Lord certainly recognised this when He said,
“for the sons of this age are more shrewd in relation to their own kind than the sons of light”.  (Luke 16:8)

[Bailey2]

Structure is a good thing.  

And so are open confessions.   

[Bailey2]

I had an interesting discussion today with my sp dir about confessionals (among other things more important obviously). 
He said if a person wants to repent, he doesn’t care if he is behind a screen, face to face, in the church, in the office, or anywhere else (the thought of seeing pictures of priests hearing confessions along the side of the road on pilgrimages came to mind).  He said once a priest says, “you must kneel behind a screen or you must sit face to face,” he makes himself powerful by taking away choice.  He said the temptation to abuse power is a great one for priests so he just assume leave it up to the penitents where they want to confess since it is about them anyway.  That is why there is always a choice in our parish.
Just thought I’d share that; not that it is right or wrong. But I found it interesting.

But, now I have to go mull over the rest of our meeting, which was .......... hmm, I'm at a loss right now........... 

[Brigid]

He said if a person wants to repent, he doesn’t care if he is behind a screen, face to face, in the church, in the office, or anywhere else (the thought of seeing pictures of priests hearing confessions along the side of the road on pilgrimages came to mind).

I can see why he'd say this, however I think that would only be true of perfect contrition and not imperfect (which is what I think is my state  )

[Patricia]

I wish I had a good spiritual director.....

[Brigid]

I wish I had a good spiritual director.....

When I had one I don't remember that he said a whole lot, but one time when I talked to a priest at my parish (not about anything about the church at all) he talked quite a bit - so it must depend on the individual personality.

Bailey, do you go to your Sp Dir. for confession? It makes sense, but I'd feel strange about it.

[Patricia]

I've read that once you find a good spiritual director you stick to him since he knows you very well by now, knowing all your sins , your personality, your frailties etc. and is better able to advise you.
But beware of a spiritual director who gives you wrong advice. You are better off alone then.  To have  a spiritual director to whom you confess. I'd feel strange too, unless I was as comfortable with him as I was with my own father.

[Brigid]

I've read that once you find a good spiritual director you stick to him since he knows you very well by now, knowing all your sins , your personality, your frailties etc. and is better able to advise you.
But beware of a spiritual director who gives you wrong advice. You are better off alone then.  To have  a spiritual director to whom you confess. I'd feel strange too, unless I was as comfortable with him as I was with my own father.

How do you tell tho' if he's giving you the wrong advice tho' (if its about you personally, not about the teachings of the Church)?

I don't think I'd want to confess to my own father either. The only person that I might be okay with hearing my confession is my brother (I don't care what he thinks of me, he's stuck with me as a sister - something I loved to remind him of when we were young). I know, I'm too worried about human respect. Well, maybe I wouldn't mind confessing to one of you. You guys are able to take me with a grain (or two) of salt.

[Bailey2]

Wow !    I didn't mean to start such a lively discussion! 

however I think that would only be true of perfect contrition and not imperfect

I'm not sure how you mean that..... that one should use a screen until contrition is perfect?   I vaguely have heard those terms but truthfully, I never give them a thought.  I figure there is no such thing as "perfect" contrition since no one is perfect.   

I wish I had a good spiritual director.....

You do!  Your children, the Saints,  and the Holy Spirit in your heart.  Until I was 47 (3 yrs ago), I never had a so called, "director."  And, while there is some good in having a "director,"  I recognize that only God is my true director.  In fact, once I refrained from seeing him for 3 months because I felt I was getting to dependent on him...... and I never told him I was doing that; just didn't call. 
So different ways to gain support, spiritual companionship (including this forum), and guidance at different times come in different ways. 

Bailey, do you go to your Sp Dir. for confession?

YES!   

I've read that once you find a good spiritual director you stick to him since he knows you very well by now, knowing all your sins , your personality, your frailties etc. and is better able to advise you.  But beware of a spiritual director who gives you wrong advice. You are better off alone then.  To have  a spiritual director to whom you confess. I'd feel strange too, unless I was as comfortable with him as I was with my own father.

Comfortable with him as with Jesus in that setting.
Comfortable with him as there for me and not himself in the other setting.

How do you tell tho' if he's giving you the wrong advice tho' (if its about you personally, not about the teachings of the Church)?

In my case, he has never given me advice except when he told me to completely stop drinking  (I was depressed at the time over some losses and using that as a crutch) and when he told me to do a life inventory and confess it.  When I complained (for 3 months!), he just listened patiently and offered to have someone else hear that confession if I wished (he ended up hearing it).  But after those two things, he has never given me advice, only things to think about.  He says the Holy Spirit is my director.  But this is all just me; other people have other experiences.

[Brigid]

Wow !    I didn't mean to start such a lively discussion! 

Well, that must be your "calling" here, like Patricia is our expert on Our Lady of Fatima. It's great.

I'm not sure how you mean that..... that one should use a screen until contrition is perfect?  I vaguely have heard those terms but truthfully, I never give them a thought.  I figure there is no such thing as "perfect" contrition since no one is perfect.   

Good reason to always use the screen.

In my case, he has never given me advice except when he told me to completely stop drinking  (I was depressed at the time over some losses and using that as a crutch) and when he told me to do a life inventory and confess it.  When I complained (for 3 months!), he just listened patiently and offered to have someone else hear that confession if I wished (he ended up hearing it).  But after those two things, he has never given me advice, only things to think about.  He says the Holy Spirit is my director.  But this is all just me; other people have other experiences.

Maybe that must have been why the one I had didn't seem to say much. He didn't give any advice (although he did talk throughout our conversation - but didn't give "homework assignments"   like yours). I know he would have been happy to hear my confessions, but I was never brave enough. Well, St. Therese never found a spiritual director she really liked and said that God was hers.

Bailey, I think you've found another topic for you to get us into a lively discussion about - spiritual directors.